Thread: Revelations from Patch 4.5

MSQ /The parley/Varis

Honestly I agree that Limsa was not founded peacefully thus this argument was truly bad for the admiral to use. But the one against Ishgard? Why did nobody point out that Nidhogg was not some common enemy but a really old elder dragon hellbend on revenge? He attacked Ishgard for thousands of years and did not destroy them simply because he wanted them to suffer. Yet we still tried our best to stop any bloodshet and we still tried for peace even with him around. Heck we had to dispose both leaders to make way for peace thus its not just that we take out one side to have some kind of freedom. Yet even through all the hate (as Aymeric pointed out) they were still able to create peace because both sides wanted it.

I also find the argument of: "How long will peace last" bad. In this case why not just temper everyone like Thordan wanted because as long as people have their free will there will be conflict. Also interesting how he had no true argument against the torment that Doma and Ala Mhigo went through under Garlemald rule. (And sorry if you have never conquered them, then none of your soldiers would have died either)

In the end it would not surprise me if this was not Varis himself but also if he was himself. Lets not forget that it was him alone (before he learned of Solus in SB) that already wanted to kill of all the beast tribes to stop primals thus he was for genocide when it was necessary. He worked with Eldibius before the reveal and only wondered once what will happen to humanity if all goes back to how it once was. He also gave free reign towards his son whom he should have known to be horrible. So he was never bellow killing those that he wanted to be killed thus him sacrificing all the shards and who knows how many people is not out of character. His emotes were a bit strange but then I remember Asahi and how he seemed to be calm too.

In the end we know from another story line that children in Garlemald are raised with the belief that they are the best race. Thus it was not surprising that the end goal was a world completely under the reign of Garlemald. So for me most of his behaviour was quite true to the things he showed in the past. I was just surprised how easily he showed them thus why I would not find it unbelievable that he is not Varis. But at the same time he had no problem talking about the plan of the Ascian so maybe those guards are completely loyal to him and this was really just his personal view on those things. I mean he would not be the first character in the game that believes to outplay Ascians.

24 man raid

Just a quick question. Why do they have a church in Garlemald if they are not allowed to believe in gods? Is this a church of the emporer?

Originally Posted by Alleo

24 man raid

Just a quick question. Why do they have a church in Garlemald if they are not allowed to believe in gods? Is this a church of the emporer?

A quick answer:

The Church they talk about is the Church of Ivalice, way some years before Ivalice became Dalmasca and was eventually conquered by Garlemald. No mention of a Garlean Church there.

Originally Posted by CaesarCV

Alright! I've only had time to do the MSQ at the moment, partially since I've been away from the game for a while and am dreadfully undergeared. I'll only discuss the MSQ in this post, since, well, I'll have to do some Omega Grinding and I expect this post to be well and buried by the time I'm done with that!

Anyway, without further ado...

Pre-Parley

I'll handle the plot in mostly chronological order for the moment. It'll help me keep my thoughts a bit more organized. Sorry if I've mixed up the order at all, I remember all the events but sometimes I just get weird in that way.

I honestly guessed that Matoya would be on call to help with the whole 'Scions sans souls' issue. She's kind of the perfect woman for the job. Thankfully she's also just as entertaining as I remember, if not moreso! I've always been a big fan of Matoya in this game, and frankly cranky old witch women too ha ha. The way that she hid her legitimate fear and concern through snark shone through in the voice acting, and was really endearing to her character. Referring to Y'shtola as a 'wildcat' who needed to be tamed gives me so many adorable mental images of the pair when they were younger. Their exposition more firmly puts me in the 'their souls have been brought to another shard' camp. Their souls are clearly somewhere, but they can't be seen from this plane. Seems like we might be heading out next expansion...but I could be totally wrong.

Maxima counts as a full defector now! Given that he was just almost assassinated it kind of makes sense that he'd flee Garlemald, especially given how the Encyclopedia Eorzea II revealed that his parents were likely assassinated for the same reason. It's a little disappointing to hear that most of the Populares fled instead of sticking behind as a pseudo-resistance faction, but they can honestly show up at any time, and are likely to accompany us to Garlemald (which seems like will be in 6.0 right now). Afterwards it's back to Doma, and I love the idea mentioned earlier in this thread that poor Elezenos has just been racing back and forth hoping to catch up to us.

As for the scene in Doma, it basically screamed out to the heavens that DOMA IS SAFE GUYS! IT'S COOL IF HIEN AND THE SAMURAI AND THE PIRATES AND XAELA AND JUNK LEAVE! THEY ARE SAFE! DON'T WORRY ABOUT THEM DURING 5.0!!! Which honestly makes sense. I'm pretty tired of Doma at this point (even if Hien is still a very, very good boy). We have other things to worry about. It was cool to see representatives from Dalmasca and Nagxia present though.

Then we moved onto our meeting with the Shadowhunter. It was perhaps a little oddly anti-climactic. It kind of makes sense since we didn't have Cid or any of the other characters that would have a dramatic reaction to him (our character could but there are severe writing limitations around that) but it's a tad disappointing. Even Raughban did not seem overly concerned about it. Gaius is still cool as ever though honestly. The Shadowhunter seems like a necessary character, why not make it someone more interesting? Also Ehm-Selet is almost certainly Solus, but they could be leaving that as a twist and it's really someone else. It's also interesting to see Elidibus's role and apparent leadership status explained. As for not really explaining how Varis survived, it would have been a bit corny to get into the specifics anyway. It's not like they planned the whole time for him to survive or anything, so its' easier to sort of brush over it. The idea that he's trying to live up to the memories of his lost men is fun though.

Afterwards we had a rather excellent scene of lovely Grandfather Grandson Bonding. Solus still lights up any scene he shows up in, and his flippant demeanor more or less gels with the idea that he was 'always an Ascian'. The way he mocks Varis was fun to see, and I loved the whole bits about him 'thinking Varis was a real emperor' and 'forming a family enterprise'. Varis having the cloning projects is kind of interesting. He clearly started them before he knew the truth about Solus and the Ascians, hence Solus mocking him for just being able to take them now, but what was his original plan? Given his 'master race' and ubersmench-y views, I wouldn't be shocked if he was trying to create the 'ideal Garlean race' or something like that. Either way, it proves he might have had a more esoteric ideology and goals even before his whole life was revealed to be a lie. Also it looks like the Black Rose will be more than a simple weapon...sure why not.

The rest of the plot was more or less the kind of procedural scenes that were needed so we can understand what's happening, and next we moved onto more interesting fare.

Parley and Ghymlet Dark

The Parley was very clearly the 'signature scene' of the patch. I overall really quite enjoyed it too. There was a palpable sense of tension in the room as they argued. Varis did manage to dismantle their arguments (even if I wish they got to fight back a little more) but it was cool how they used it to demonstrate his/Garlean ideology. His weakest counterargument was probably to Kan-E-Senna, who only agreed to summon the twelve in response to the Garleans, but the others were fun enough, whether or not you agree. The response I found most interesting was to (our very best boy) Aymeric, where Varis basically agreed with Thordan even if it was accompanied by a sick burn. There are really a lot of similarities between them, especially now. Alisae taking control of the situation and seeming to take on an Alphinaud impression was a fun clincher to the scene. It also established Varis as a lot more canny and clever than the more brutish, straightforward impression we had of him before. Which was fun.

I liked how you get to bring up in the interlude that, well, it doesn't matter who's right or wrong, and Varis was unlikely to be convinced anyway. They point out Garlean hypocrisies, but that's also unimportant right now. They needed to focus on the future, and it seemed even like they understood that to get through they had to feed his ego a bit. Nanamo taking back control of the situation was a fun way to start off part 2, as our heroes get to strike back after being diplomatically outmatched. I have mixed feelings on Varis's actual plan. The one perfect race thing speaks pretty well to the sort of fascistic racial prejudices clearly present in Garlemald. As does the idea that he basically thinks everyone else is too stupid to realize the truth and should just shut up and listen to their betters already. That's kind of how the Empire generally acts towards the people it conquers. The way he glared angrily and shouted at them when they didn't agree with his master plan was also fun.

On the other hand, it's a little strange that he's willing to go through with Calamities. He definitely could have been possessed or forced to say those things, possibly even trying to grant us information like how Theodoric said. Although if that's the case, there wasn't a ton to hint at it. This wouldn't be the first time someone tried to manipulate the Ascians and use their tools for themselves, or even succeeded in taking power for themselves that way. Thordan was literally brought up in the conversation after all. So it could really go either way at this point. It's a little strange to see Varis being more ephemeral, but with the cloning thing and his prior attempts to harness Allagan technology maybe there was just more to him than met the eye.

Afterward was the Ghymlet dark, which was honestly a fun, exciting dungeon! It was probably my favorite of the 'war dungeons' so far. The aesthetics of crashed magitek implements and Eorzean artillery created a great image, while the large groups of randomly fighting soldiers hemmed around our heroes brought the mood home. Having NPC allies was also great, especially when Kan-E-Senna and Lyse got to do fancy LBs, or simply did mechanics. Where was Merlwyb though!? Are they just ashamed of the Machinist animations or something? Either way it was a fun, cinematic dungeon. That same cinematic element might make it not great for grinding, but it'll be fine on a Duty Roulette ha ha.

Anyway, I overall enjoyed the plot. It felt like it ended a bit early, they must be saving the big twists and reveal moments for Patch 4.5 Part 2.

Even more Varis!!!

This isn't taking advantage of the ascians, though. he has no plan!


No way to unify the newformed post joined masses into the force he wants once the rejoining is completed.
No way to ensure any of the proposed parties survive the calamities involved, including himself.
The plan is going with the goals of the ascians but doesn't explain how any of it will better the situation.
Ascians that the proposed know and are opposed to.


He has no plan, and yet wanted to convince them with it? Why?

Originally Posted by Kallera

Even more Varis!!!

This isn't taking advantage of the ascians, though. he has no plan!


No way to unify the newformed post joined masses into the force he wants once the rejoining is completed.
No way to ensure any of the proposed parties survive the calamities involved, including himself.
The plan is going with the goals of the ascians but doesn't explain how any of it will better the situation.
Ascians that the proposed know and are opposed to.


He has no plan, and yet wanted to convince them with it? Why?

Sorry to bring up an older post, but I feel that this kind of deserves a response.

I want to say first of all, we have no idea what sorts of plans he's managed to cook up, and that he might have answers to some of these questions that we don't know yet. It's not like he would reveal all of the elements before his plan if the Alliance Leaders did not even agree with the basic premise after all. He's also been looking into all sorts of things while we (as in the audience) were not looking, like Cloning. He assigned his most loyal general and legion to go investigate Azys Lla and gather their technology. We thwarted that sure, but it's important to mention.

As for him not being able to survive the Calamities, there are various explanations to that. First off, he was attempting to learn cloning and other technologies, maybe he could have a way to pull it off, or at least thinks he can. We also know that a Calamity doesn't have to be a world extinction event, at least judging by Bahamut which didn't affect much of Ilsabard, Othard, or even Ala Migho. This is an empire that barely bat an eye when an entire city (Bozja) was destroyed. They even try to destroy entire cities (Rabanastre, Doman Enclave) or continents (Aldernard) on purpose. That's just collateral damage. There are Garleans like the Populares who retain their humanity and are horrified by such things, but that doesn't apply quite so much to the leadership looking at the world in terms of numbers and long term plans.They have the 'greater good' to consider after all. Varis could be well and fine with letting many die for the 'greater good', and seemed surprised that the Eorzean Alliance didn't understand it.

As for unifying and controlling the reformed humanity, he talked about how this supposed race would be free of racial and cultural boundaries. They would be, in his mind at least, already as unified as they ever could be. The idea that if everyone were the same things would be perfect is classic logic for Fascists fictional and historical, and this kind of lines up with that. Granted, this might be an act of complete arrogance, especially if he thinks that he will be in charge.

There's also the possibility that he's gone a little...batty. The revelation of his entire Empire, indeed his entire life, having been a lie could easily shake him to his core and change his assumptions. He fought and bled and killed just to find out he was nothing more than a puppet leading a false crusade. He might be desperate and trying to find some way to turn the Ascian's tools against them, to complete the great work on his own terms and cast away the 'gods' that rule over humanity. There's also the possibility that he's just been misled, that he's tragically playing into their plans while attempting to subvert them.

24man raid

So, I just wonder something, before the third boss (whose name I forgot, the one wiht the lightning blades)
We move to a place which seems to have been overflown by Light. Someone says that it feels like they moved to a different dimension.
So... I don't think we did but... did we? Did we move to a place such as the first shard (the place where the WoD comes from).

From what I understand it's impossible, so welp i'm confused.

On the other hand I'm extremely pleased because the first shard is one place I've always wanted to go to

MSQ

I think I'm still not quite sure what to make of Varis, his stated aims, and what's going on with Garlemald. he seems more into it ('it' being Solu's plans / Garlean status quo) than I perhaps initially expected.
Also I was quite blindsided by the Emperor's Back-up Clone Plot. How long has it been going on? What is the purpose?
I'm all worried about the reserve Black Rose too.

As for the Scions, could the fact that it's the upper-level members that are being Called be taken as hint to who might be responsible / for what purpose? Or is just because they are main characters... (probably this)

24 man - I haven't actually run this yet, just unlocked it.

Ever since someone mentioned Ultima was pretty central to FFT plot, specifically regarding Alma (I've never played it, myself), I'd been wondering how they might address Ultima (lucavi) / Ultima (spell) / Ultima Weapon / Altima (ascian), and I was almost ready for an "Ascians did it" twist, but "inter dimensional shenanigans" is good to i guess. It's interesting that they've made it so that Zodiac Braves = Warriors of Light (did I get that right? At least it seemed that way for Ajora and Ramza). (Wasn't the whole Zodiac Relic Weapon thing in ARR also to do with Zodiac Braves but they seemed like a completely different group so ???)

Also, when did Orran/Orlan Durai find time to invent Triple Triad? (I'm presuming this connection based on the Durai Memorial Cup tournament being named after FF8's triple triad inventor, who is named after Orran, but that's purely fanon on my part)