Thread: Revelations from Patch 4.5

Originally Posted by Theodric

The Four Lords:

The Ghimlyt Dark:

I was left feeling rather underwhelmed. It didn't feel like a high stakes battle. The Burn had a lot more bite to it - everything in Ghimlyt seemed to melt pretty quickly to the point where I was awaiting a phase transition for the final duo only for the victory screen to pop up instead. The music was nice, though once again 'war' in this game simply consists of hundreds of Garleans being cut down. The entire battlefield was strewn with broken magitek, so Garlemald simply does not come across as imposing anymore.

Response

I agree, I was expecting the battle to have a lot more oomph behind it in terms of consequences. But it should be stressed that the Eorzean leaders made it very clear that they consider Garlemald to be a serious threat multiple times. They even expressed the very real possibility of Eorzea being militarily defeated.

But yes, that's what the war was from the perspective of the Alliance and WoL: cutting down Garleans. Just like it's the same for them, but cutting down Eorzeans. It was also made clear that the Alliance leadership doesn't view Garlemald as a bunch of faceless targets, because they were more than happy to allow the defecting Populares in.

Overall, it's very difficult to say that the game is portraying the imperial military as not imposing, when its repeatedly stressed that it very much is.

Varis:

I'll be bitterly disappointed if it turns out that Regula died for naught. His final words implied that Varis would have need of the Warrior of the Light, so I'm hoping that Varis' speech was simply a cunning plan to reveal Solus' and Elidibus' schemes to those present whilst making it seem like he was fully on board with the Ascians. I suspect as much simply due to the odd habit of the camera lingering on the moths fluttering about near the light as well as the somewhat oppressive guards that are seemingly not far behind him. Could one, or both, of those elements be keeping Varis in check on behalf of the Ascians? His hands were quite clearly tied and he's repeatedly shown contempt for the Ascians and their schemes so it seems strange for him to do a complete shift in his behaviour - yet it'd make perfect sense if he was doing it out of necessity. Perhaps he knows that if he doesn't play ball, he'll be killed and replaced with someone who'll bring Garlemald and his people to ruin.

That aside, seeing him call out Merlwyb for her hypocrisy was enjoyable. Amusingly, three different people poked me on Discord and joked about Varis sounding like he was quoting some of my posts outright at times...especially when it came to describing his people's history.

Still, I hope he isn't just suddenly being pushed down a path to conveniently have him show up as a raid boss later down the line. WoW went down that route and it ticked a lot of people off, myself included.

Response

I don't have high hopes that Varis will lose villain status and I'm not expecting him to. That being said, I would absolutely be behind the idea that the overly ham and megalomaniac speech was purely a very elaborate information leak. His "need" of the WoL could end up just being him trying to use them as a tool rather than anything.

Originally Posted by Rocl

Mechanic spoiler for Yian:

You also have to face the target. You kneel and prop up a shield, a lot like Passage of Arms, but your shield has to face whichever monster is using an attack so you're able to block. And like you said, you have to be perfectly still, like Passage of Arms again, any action or movement will cancel your crouch.

Thanks, that was what I was missing. And I was indeed not doing that, which explains the mechanic.

MSQ additional thoughts:

The more I think about the parley, the more annoyed I am with it. The only good point Varis had was against Merlwyb, and that was only because Merlwyb set it up for him so nicely. When she was going on about Lominsans peacefully settling La Noscea, I was going "NO YOU FOOL YOU'RE WALKING RIGHT INTO HIS TRAP".

Merlwyb should have known better, especially since Y'shtola already called her out on it.

The rest of the Alliance was hamstrung by the writers apparently not knowing how to write a proper negotiation. Even Raubahn's original idea of just using the parley as a stalling tactic didn't work, since Varis controlled the pace of the negotiations. And he only did so because he could essentially handle all the Alliance leaders blindfolded with both hands tied behind his back.

It was the NPC negotiation equivalent of Zenos narratively handing us our behinds in Rhalgr's Reach. He's not doing it through skill or tactics. He's just coded to be that much higher in stats, because the writers say so.

Especially disappointed in Aymeric. Where was the Aymeric who managed to get Hraesvelgr to at least listen to him, even if it was Midgardsormr who actually convinced Hraesvelgr?

Originally Posted by YianKutku

Thanks, that was what I was missing. And I was indeed not doing that, which explains the mechanic.

MSQ additional thoughts:

The more I think about the parley, the more annoyed I am with it. The only good point Varis had was against Merlwyb, and that was only because Merlwyb set it up for him so nicely. When she was going on about Lominsans peacefully settling La Noscea, I was going "NO YOU FOOL YOU'RE WALKING RIGHT INTO HIS TRAP".

Merlwyb should have known better, especially since Y'shtola already called her out on it.

The rest of the Alliance was hamstrung by the writers apparently not knowing how to write a proper negotiation. Even Raubahn's original idea of just using the parley as a stalling tactic didn't work, since Varis controlled the pace of the negotiations. And he only did so because he could essentially handle all the Alliance leaders blindfolded with both hands tied behind his back.

It was the NPC negotiation equivalent of Zenos narratively handing us our behinds in Rhalgr's Reach. He's not doing it through skill or tactics. He's just coded to be that much higher in stats, because the writers say so.

Especially disappointed in Aymeric. Where was the Aymeric who managed to get Hraesvelgr to at least listen to him, even if it was Midgardsormr who actually convinced Hraesvelgr?

This song is just ten words long:

Very much agreed that the Alliance leaders seemed to have gotten hold of the idiot ball in the parley. The only valid point Varis raised was with Merlwyb, and since she's been called out on that twice now by the Scions, her surprise seemed rather off. Varis had no answer to Hien, Lyse, and Raubhan, who all experienced Garlean oppression firsthand. Kan-E-Senna wasn't allowed to give the obvious response to his "You tried to summon the Twelve" remark, namely, "We wouldn't have had to if you guys hadn't dropped the freaking moon on Eorzea."

And then there was Aymeric. Varis' description of the end of the Dragonsong War was so very wrong: the WoL, Estinien, Ysayle, and Alphinaud trekked across the better part of Dravania in order to meet with Hraesvalgr to make peace. When we eventually killed Nidhogg, it was with help from his brood-brother, and the blessing of Big Dragon Daddy himself. That said, I did like Aymeric's response, because it was realistic and it fits nicely with my headcanon that Aym and his BFF the Warrior of Light make a point of not talking about the fact that the WoL killed Aymeric's father. I have no trouble believing that he's still conflicted about that, and having Varis bring it up caught him off-guard.

@Jonnycbad:

Sadly, I never got around to trying and playing FFXI. It's one of my biggest gaming regrets! I'll have to make a note to at least try it next time I find myself with some free time and it isn't close to a major FFXIV patch.

MSQ:

Regarding Varis, there's a lot of me that feels like either that isn't the real Varis, or Varis is (like Theodric suggested) trying to get information to the WoL as discretely as possible. "Let's do what the ascians want to be made whole to destroy the ascians" doesn't feel like a plan Varis would seriously consider--I didn't get any kind of impression at all he would take the ascians at their word even so far as to believe there is some mythical true race that was fragmented when the worlds were.

It all just feels so...off.

/10char

Luckily, I took a screenshot that is relevant:

The screenshot in question: