Thread: Revelations from Patch 4.5

Traditions traditions traditions.

For anybody who's new to this process, we've organically fallen into this habit of always making a Patch Day freak-out thread where we give our knee-jerk feedback and trade a few points so we don't just go spoiler-bombing the rest of our open threads in the first 24 hours.

By discussing each story arc in its own collapsible spoiler box, we ensure that people can take part in the thread without fear even before they've finished everything.

EXAMPLE

Like so.

MAIN SCENARIO

"My goal is the salvation of this star!" speech from young Alphinaud years ago?
"Elidibus is Time-Travelling Alphinaud" theories ahoy. Alphinaud the Emissary was THE Emissary all along! (Trolololo~)

There's the first wave of that hypothesized realignment of [Eorzea] vs. [Garlemald] to [Eorzea + Garlemald] vs. [Ascians + Garlemald].
Can reclaim that from the "set aside due to being blindsided by the 5.0 teaser" bin.

Alpinaud is in soulless sleep. Krile is not.

AHAHAHA reason for Gaius's survival left at: MAN LITERALLY TOO ANGRY TO DIE

Aaand there's the Addition Retcon ("NEW REVELATIONS") door required for believing "Solus was one of the Overlords." By restructuring Emet-selch into the "of the Source" mix, there's now both legs to stand on for the "It wasn't really Solus" camp. (Now we must needs make excuses for Nabriales only mentioning the two when he originally told us about Originals and Reincarnates / Transmigrationists, but I've already got one possibility: interpret what Nabriales was saying as specifically an excuse for why specifically those two could enter specifically the Rising Stones in spite of the Blessing of Light.)

Also confirmation of another layer from the Soul Shenanigans post vis a vis "transmigration into a living host which kills and warps that host". Notice, however, that we once had 14 worlds and 14 overlords. Assuming the "Solus was just Emet" camp is correct, was Emet promoted after his assigned rejoining, or something? Or do 3 Ascians go unnamed?

Really solid dialogue at the parley, and an excellent feel for the dungeon (though did I see Kan-E-Senna wield a white magic barrier in battle? In violation of the Pact of Gelmorra!?) The story feels like it ends a bit too soon and without a final punch ... but, doesn't every x.50? Just short of a whole other patch cycle now until the real fireworks. Maybe it just feels that way because losing the last of our allies to the soulless sleep felt so inevitable, anyway.

They've definitely been setting up the Chekhov chemical weapon to go off, but who's gonna take the hit? As long as they don't pull an Infinity War and go all out on a dramatic slaughterhouse they're obviously just going to undo with time shenanigans, I think I'll be okay.

Edited because I'm trying not to hit the daily post cap.

MSQ: MSQ

The parlay with the emperor was well done. They didn't have him turn into a 'good guy' but he has his own goals, and was able to counter a lot of what the Eorzean leaders said.

The dungeon was pretty good, good atmosphere. I wonder if the two final bosses will be the Grynwaht of Shadowbringers or something since they survived.

The ending feels a bit anti climactic compared to this point in Heavensward, with Ilberd doing his summoning and Popolymo's sacrifice to stall it. But at the same time I appreciate having less dire of a cliffhanger for the next few months too.

I thought for a moment they would give an actual explanation for Gaius surviving but LOL NOPE.

Something else that was a bit funny was one moment Gaius seemed to be all 'the black wolf is dead I live only for vengeance now.' But then at the end of the conversation he's all wanting to fight for his nation. Poor guy's gonna be upset when he finds out Varis and the Ascians have the same goal, just with Varis having the caveat of wanting to destroy the ascians after mankind is made 'perfect' again.

I'll do Ivalice after work, that's all I have time for now.

I got halfway through the MSQ before i had to leave because of stuff but i wanna talk about it.

Nice to see Krilie back from Eureka. Also nice to see the MSQ acknowledge side content sometimes.

And Shadowhunter is Gaius. To the surprise of nobody. Also the way they "explained" his survival is almost hilarious. He just REFUSED to die. He was caught in a massive explosion and just DECIDED he was gonna live. The man has some serious guts and it's nice he's on our side for now.

Shame about Alphie tho :/ Didn't think they would knock him out already.

... oh god we doing cloning now. Also WHY would Varis clone Solus? En masse it seems. Makes me wonder how long he knew about grandpappy being an Ascian.

I'mma properly edit this when i finish everything but i'm very intrigued with what i seem so far.

Em-es-queue:

Guys, we did it. We made it through a X.50 patch without one of our allies using Tupsimati to sacrifice themselves. Baby steps...

Though that's probably because The Voice is continuing to be as genre savvy as ever. Taking notice of Alisaie's death flag and getting her relocated to the Rising Stones will be best for everyone in the long run, I think.

Other than that, lots of bombshells that didn't really hit for much (like those boss mechanics). Gaius didn't need much convincing to stay on our good side, Varis is sparing us from having to explore the "Ascians are evil but their ultimate goal is good" angle ourselves, and Nanamo is genre savvy enough to already accept the "our differences are the root of conflict but can make us stronger as well" Aesop at the end of many a Light vs. Dark story.

Other than that, this was an oddly lean patch, storywise. It doesn't really feel like we've learned anything new, per se, just had the cards we already knew existed laid out on the table for all to see.

I'll get to the rest next, after I bathe and dress and pretend to be human for a bit.

Ivalice:

There is absolutely no way most of this doesn't carry over to the MSQ in a major way. Exciting to see side content getting more spotlight in that manner, and gives hope for the previous ones...

The atmosphere, the bosses, their dialogue, the story overall... very nice... some confusion about the Ultima thing though... so Ultima is simply just an alien form of magick Allag imitated (maybe?)... and Ultima, the High Seraph is basically Jenova!? Well, not really, given we used plane of existence but Cid likened it to Omega which is more alien/star territory. I hope it gets explained further in 5.0 considering the stinger with the IVth Legion.

Speaking of that stinger: I immediately wondered where the hell that Thespian went! He was moaning and brooding the entire time, a very devoted son of Garlemald. It was good to see that even amongst the "defectors" there's dissent.

Tartarus, pocket dimensions, the IVth... it all better come back in 5.0; but honestly I'd feel comfortable betting money it will.

MSQ:

Weird close up of black moths pinging against the lamp during the parley...I didn't suss that one out. The negotiations were well done, and hilarious. Varis laughing in the face of the Eorzean leaders is ... fantastic, honestly.

Solus' interest in the Black Rose is weird. It seemed that the aetherophysics or whatever was what he was most interested in. Also, yikes about Emet-Selch. That means the Source gets TWO overlords, which means one Shard is without. The common assumption being one Overlord for every Shard, Lahabrea for the Source and Elidibus is his own category (since he has the middle pedestal in the Chrysalis). Emet being Solus seems very likely.
A lot of what Solus said this patch rubbed me in such a way that I think he's being a major charlatan, and, in fact, not really Solus. Like, the Ascian pretending to be him is tugging on Varis' strings, since we knew he had great respect for his grandfather--sans that heir bit.
Gaius' explanation is fine. He was resigned to die, but decided to get out and avenge the sacrifice of those who served under him. I liked that. He felt close to at least two of his tribuni (one a little too close if you ask me), and I applaud the decision for him to get up and not let their death be for naught.

Interesting that Krile returns and doesn't appear to have heard the Call. This means it's targetting very specific Scions. I was glad to see Matoya return and almost immediately drop pretense of being a cranky old grandma when Y'shtola's condition was brought up.

More than any #.5, this patch left me wanting in the MSQ department. Neither of the Zenos, no answers about how Gaius slew two Ascians overlords(?), Maxima leads a whole political movement through Ilsabard in a fortnight and it's just glossed over?, an abrupt ending, just feels ... awkward... and a whole 2+ months to go!

The Four Lords

it was okay

MSQ:

I did not expect Krile to return. I haven't been keeping up with Eureka, so I don't know if the dialogue changes either here or there.

Seeing Matoya hide her concern and worry about Y'shtola with her snark is oddly heartwarming.

Is Maxima considered a full defector now? As in, he's going to be living in Eorzea as opposed to working with the other Populares in Garlemald? Presumably the attack by the Emperor's Guard made him keenly aware that he, specifically, is now being targeted.

I admit I laughed when Gaius's airship hit the barrier. Kind of like seeing him walk into a glass door.

Getting Alphinaud back like this is kind of anti-climactic, especially since it was overshadowed tremendously by Gaius introducing himself.

It's a good thing the WoL is a mostly silent protagonist, or I would not have been able to restrain myself from waxing full sarcastic when Gaius was talking about how he was tricked by Lahabrea.

What do we know about the name "Emet-Selch"? Given that this is apparently the first(?) time we've heard it, it's almost certain that this is the Ascian Overlord who is currently in Solus's body.

I am kind of irritated at Gaius claiming that we have unbalanced Light and Dark due to "our deeds in Hydaelyn's name". We have personally eliminated two Ascian Overlords, but so has Gaius. Lahabrea wasn't us, but Thordan. (Gaius apparently believes we did it anyway.) If defeating Ascians is the reason why Light and Dark are unbalanced, then he bears just as much blame.

Of course, if Light and Dark are unbalanced because we stop Ascian plans involving causing massive suffering, then let us welcome the Flood of Light with zero regrets.

Having said that, I have the strong suspicion that the Flood of Light will actually be caused by Solus. He is entirely too fascinated by the possibilities in Black Rose having "the perfect aspect", and how it might be "most susceptible" to the effects the Flood of Light on the First shard is having on the Source. I would predict that Black Rose will be deliberately used by Solus to trigger the Flood of Light on the Source, although I can't really imagine why. Maybe Solus just dislikes Elidibus's lectures about balance that much.

The parley between Varis and the Alliance was almost painful to watch, because suddenly these heads of state are rendered sputtering and speechless by Varis's lazy counters to their clumsy arguments. Varis himself is full of it, and I kept waiting in vain for someone on the Alliance side to call out his untruths of omission.

But Varis eventually reveals his true goal, ie uniting Hydaelyn under one rule and rejoining the other shards, in order to rebel against the Ascians. This is possibly the worst option to fight against the Ascians. I have no idea who put the idea into Varis's head; rejoining the shards is exactly the Ascians' plan, but Varis doesn't like Ascians, so I kept wondering if he was still playing some sort of political game here. It's obviously not an attempt to hide his plans to eliminate the Ascians, since he loudly declared as much.

Post-dungeon, Alisaie goes AFK, which means only Krile and Tataru are left of the major Scions. The lower-ranking Scions are still around, and then there's Unukalhai all alone in the Solar.

The stinger is the arrival of Elidizenos. Which is not a surprise, but does explain why the Garleans weren't making a real push into Alliance territory; they were waiting for him to be a one man army like in Doma.

Ghimlyt Dark:

Did anyone manage to spot the Lominsans? The dungeon started with Hien and Yugiri, then Pipin and Kan-E-Senna, then Aymeric and Lyse, all of whom had plenty of combat shouts. However, I didn't manage to see Merlwyb or Eynzhar.

I noticed that Lyse and Kan-E-Senna tend to be down to about half HP by the time the party reaches them. One would assume Kan-E-Senna would at least heal herself, but apparently not. One Lustrate each usually takes care of matters, but I do wonder what would happen if they get KOed.

The Rubricatus just before the final boss has a couple of attacks that require NPCs to be around. The "Unbreakable Cermet Blade" has Kan-E-Senna put up a barrier that reduces damage to negligible amounts (no idea what it's like outside, since none of the runs I've been on have had people bad enough to ignore the obvious bubble), and then it tries to self-destruct. The first time I ran through, Lyse LBed it, while the second time Hien did the LB. So that's a fun variation.

The final boss(es) are the two guards, named Julia (blue) and Annia (red) quo Soranus. Is there a significance to these names?

One of their attacks is actually called "Heirsbane". It targets a random player and hits them for minor damage (at least at my gear ilevel). Is there something we should know about Gaius's gunblade?

Julia and Annia actually do high-fives when tagging each other in and out. It's strangely cute.

When we defeat them, they said they had "served their purpose", before withdrawing in good order. I am suspicious.

Orbonne Monastery:

After Ridorana, everyone was speculating that Ramza Lexentale suddenly becoming pleasant and polite was due to influence from Ramza Beoulve. And then this tier began, and it turned out Ramza was just under a lot of stress, and now suddenly Alma is the one being influenced by the auracite.

I don't actually know if this is a last-minute change, but it feels a lot like it.

So the Ultima spell originated from the Ultima Holy Seraph. I need to re-check the dialogue text to figure out the exact relationship, since I was under the impression that Ultima is an Ascian-related thing, not Allagan.

Cid also says something about Seraph Ultima coming from another dimensional plane "like Omega", which is puzzling. Omega came from another planet, but presumably still in this dimensional plane.

Muscadio was simple enough, although I picked up on the sniper mechanic very quickly, and could see an entire Alliance suddenly wipe to it. (My own Alliance also picked it up quickly enough.)

I still don't get the mechanics for Agrias. I assume that when she is doing the long-cast raid-wide, I had to go to the shield duty action area, and use that duty action, and stay completely still so I don't lose the buff. I got the buff, and it stayed on my buff bar, but then I got knocked back and vuln up anyway. Does anyone know the "proper" way to do it?

Cidolfus is just one of those where if we go in blind, we will wipe several times, but once people start actually talking and figuring out the mechanics, we could easily clear.

As for Ultima the High Seraph, I don't know if it's because I didn't know the mechanics, but it felt like basically AoE heal spam at certain phases. The maze mechanic was kind of fun, though.

Despite all of this, we still have no idea who the other Lucavi were in Rabanastre and Ridorana, or why they were patiently waiting for the Alliance raid to fight them.

The stinger is Noah van Gabranth of the IVth Legion taking over the constructs on Goug, including our math teacher. I have no idea where this is going, since this is the last 24-man of the expansion, but I am looking forward to finding out.

And then the Wandering Dramaturge gives a few more quests. One of which is slightly amusing, but then the next one requires me to craft a three-star level 70 HQ dish (Tako-yaki), among others (Grilled Turban and Tempura). I might not be able to actually make this dish until 5.0.

Orbonne Monastery:

Honestly, I called it with Ultima being the namesake of both the Ultima spell and the name of the unearthed Allag weapon (Ultima Weapon). Although to be fair Garleans are the decendendants of Ivalivians, so it's technically THEIR myth. The real spell was Ultimate Illusion, and just goes to show how legends and names get distorted overtime. The magick was powerful but was an illusion, and thus the most powerful magick from legend was based on a farse.

The stinger at the end with that imperial legion discovering the ruins of Goug.....Gabranth mentions how the ancient tech is identical to their own... This confirms the Garleans weren't original and didn't develop magitek on their own, THEY WERE FED it by the Ascians/Solus. Just as Ascians feed oppressed beastmen with the means to Summon, it's basically the case that the Ascians fed the weak Garleans with their own means to defend themselves and fight back, Magitek. The Ascians engineered it all.


Who fucking squealed when they saw TG Cid and had ALL his moves. Also, did anyone think his line about "I am called Thunder God, with my Holy Sword I alone will tip the balance" was a tongue-in-cheek reference to how overpowered he and his Holy Swordsman/Swordplay skillset was in FF Tactics and how he could basically solo Ultima in 2 turns?

MSQ

Anyone else get a Zilart vibe from the "rejoin all humanity back to their true form, rejoin all the worlds to their true form"

Julia and Anna are probably going to be the new "Archfiends/Team Rocke/Henchmen" of 5.0. When unmasked they're probably super hot too. Hell maybe they're 2 of a team of 5 and are referencing Sentai? They have sentai-like armor and flamboyant attacks and colorful auras


Emet-Selch was a scion of light in ff12 along with other main Ascians, so he's not "new" and nothing to dissect name wise