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  1. #1
    Player
    Mizunoko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    222
    Character
    Fox Deity
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 80

    Is it wrong to run Castrum Abania as a tank at ilvl 272

    I have mained tank since the release of ARR i know my role well and i'd like to think im a decent tank and person. When i entered Castrum Abania on my lvl 69 drk ilvl 272 as a leveling roulette queue i was nothing but disrespected by the healer and dps. One of the dps was of similar item level as me. We plowed our way to the final boss i tried to just keep to myself so i could get the dungeon done because as any roulette runner knows we do them to get things done for exp and tomes, not to sit around all day.

    When we got to the final boss we wiped 3 times because 1. The dps were not killing the hand adds that latched onto the healer and thus the healer could not heal me, and 2. The healer kept getting hit by almost every aoe i saw. Sure i was getting hit a bit hard but 10 ilvl difference between end game gears surely doesn't make it sooo terrible that it warrants harassing me over it and then blaming me for their own shortcomings in terms of doing the mechanics right?

    On the 4th try i decided this was going to be my last because there was no point dealing with all this harassment and wasting my time even if it meant taking a df penalty. On this run i noticed our healer started prioritizing dpsing over healing, i was at low health for the majority of the fight, and not because i was getting hit alot or hard, but because the healer would just keep dpsing instead of bringing my hp back up. At this point i told them that to me it looked like they were just doing this to make themself more excuse to harass me over my gear which they did, they started saying how easy i melted, and in a way they kinda admitted it themselves when they said "it was easier keeping our dps going". I guess to summarize it all up it just feels like that because they all kept dying and failing to do mechanics they were using my gear level as a scapegoat to blame me instead of just admitting that they were not trying.

    I am a veteran of this game and i know how to play and whats fair and whats not IN MY OWN OPINION, but i guess i am coming to the forums to look for a little reassurance and get other peoples views on this situation as well.

    I appreciate any input and opinions anyone has as long as they read the entirety of this post and know the context before saying anything, thank you.
    (3)
    Last edited by Mizunoko; 12-17-2018 at 01:33 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Daeriion_Aeradiir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    601
    Character
    Daeriion Aeradiir
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    It mostly depends. If you're riding tank stance and properly CDing tank busters in that dungeon (First boss's wheel spin, second bosses's stab, third bosses's whatchamacallit that inflicts vuln/bleed/etc) and cding during mobs then tanking at lower ilvls isn't bad. Now if you're trying to tank out of stance, not CDing anything at that ilvl then the blame will partly fall upon you. Your defense goes up dramatically from 270 -> 275+ range, so if you tank at lower ilvls making sure you properly CD is mandatory to not be a burden.

    In this scenario based on the information you've given though, your ilvl wouldn't have made much of a difference. If the healer's gonna straight up ignore healing you or minimize their heals on you, they have NO ONE but themselves to blame when you die from lack of healing. You also can't be blamed if you die because the healer was jailed and the dps didn't break them out, since I also know the boss does 2 tankbusters during that phase.
    (12)
    Last edited by Daeriion_Aeradiir; 12-17-2018 at 12:04 PM.

  3. #3
    Player
    RokkuEkkusu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    730
    Character
    Mikeru Takeuchi
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    IMO, item level 270 is good enough to last for all of the SB leveling dungeons. Your mileage may vary on how you time your defensive cooldowns. I've been noticing the lower quality of healers on these leveling dungeons, even with the recommended item levels or if everyone is synced to the highest possible one.
    (7)
    My Current Characters:
    Mikeru Takeuchi: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/14812205/
    Ekkusu Volnutt: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/8909941/
    Rokku Sigma: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/5714962/

    "Break a warrior's body, and he will thirst for vengeance. Break his spirit, and he will clamor for peace. Judge my methods distasteful if you will - but know that I seek to end this conflict, not prolong it." - Yadovv Gah, Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn

  4. #4
    Player
    Aomine1992's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    829
    Character
    Daiki Sejuro
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 80
    As a tank it’s usually good form to keep up to date gear while leveling, Bardum and Castrum are both hard on healer dungeons because the mobs and bosses hit like trucks, especially the last boss of castrum.

    I would advise that you just make sure you are always in updated gear while leveling especially DRK pre lvl 70.

    But looking past all that there was no need for the harassment at all because it’s doable with an under geared tank, but it’s the gaming world we live in.
    (17)

  5. #5
    Player
    Deceptus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    The Goblet - 16th Ward, Plot 55
    Posts
    4,418
    Character
    Deceptus Keelon
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by RokkuEkkusu View Post
    IMO, item level 270 is good enough to last for all of the SB leveling dungeons. Your mileage may vary on how you time your defensive cooldowns.
    This is absolutely 100% WRONG.

    If you kept the Shire gear all the way to 70, you'd have 2286 Defense while doing so. Roughly 29,991 hp from gear from 1463 Vit.

    Compared to a tank that took the HQ quest gear (285) literally given to you while leveling. Or equipped any gear that was given to you automatically when you completed a SB dungeon. Or bought the NQ gear sold by vendors in Kugane.

    They'd have 3828 Defense. 31,918 HP on gear from 1557 Vit. They have 67.45% more defense than the person in 270 gear. While that doesn't mean you'll take 67% more damage than the better geared tank, that does mean you'll take a ton more damage from every single hit every trash mob does to you. All those hits add up to a quickly dying tank. All the Vit in the world doesn't mean anything when mobs are taking chunks out of your HP pool instead of nibbles.

    Just for reference: The Defense gain from 310 to 380 is LESS than the defense gain from 270-285. It's an 18% jump in defense from 310 to 380.

    So no. Do your healers a favor and upgrade your darn gear so you don't melt during dungeon trash pulls.

    To OP. Is it wrong to be in CA at 272. In my opinion yes it is, but that's just my opinion. Just realize you're making your healers life really hard to keep you alive if you do decent sized pulls.

    Edited: for better, more accurate numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor View Post
    Just for fun. I did some basic, dreadful, MATH. A DRG rocking the full Gazelleskin level 68 set will have 2680 defense. Mr. Shire tank will have 2286.

    Let that sink in for a moment.
    (80)
    Last edited by Deceptus; 12-20-2018 at 02:01 AM.

  6. #6
    Player
    Mesarthim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Kugane
    Posts
    974
    Character
    Rozemyne Shyahoro
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    You can, but ideally you should not. By doing so you just increase the difficulty at the expense of the healer. It's still possible. The way I'd put it is I wouldn't harass you over it but you wouldn't earn too much respect from me about it since you could've gotten a few random pieces from bardam or doma (or crafted). As long as your item level is in the general vicinity of the dungeon I am tolerant. The gear itself doesn't last very long even if you did upgrade. A few dungeon runs would make the gear go out of date yet again.

    Now if you went into say... Sirensong in the ilvl 200 gear provided from 60 quests then I'd have a problem.

    Edit: The ilvl increase looks minor but the def increase from the leveling gear bardam onward is nothing to outright dismiss.
    (2)
    Last edited by Mesarthim; 12-17-2018 at 12:25 PM.

  7. #7
    Player
    RokkuEkkusu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    730
    Character
    Mikeru Takeuchi
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptus View Post
    This is absolutely 100% WRONG.

    If you kept the Shire gear all the way to 70, you'd have 2286 Defense while doing so.

    Compared to a tank that took the HQ quest gear literally given to you while leveling. They'd have 3828 Defense. They have 59% more defense than you do. That means you'll take a ton more damage from every single hit every trash mob does to you.

    Just for reference: The Defense gain from 310 to 380 is LESS than the defense gain from 270-285.

    So no. Do your healers a favor and upgrade your darn gear so you don't melt during dungeon trash pulls.
    I only suggested i270 Augmented Shire Gear as a reasonable baseline for SB leveling dungeons. Back in Heavensward, we didn't have the "automatic item drop from beating the last boss" thing. Having item level 120-130 would be reasonable enough for the HW leveling dungeons, especially having the latter.
    (1)
    My Current Characters:
    Mikeru Takeuchi: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/14812205/
    Ekkusu Volnutt: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/8909941/
    Rokku Sigma: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/5714962/

    "Break a warrior's body, and he will thirst for vengeance. Break his spirit, and he will clamor for peace. Judge my methods distasteful if you will - but know that I seek to end this conflict, not prolong it." - Yadovv Gah, Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn

  8. #8
    Player
    Shougun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    9,431
    Character
    Wubrant Drakesbane
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 90
    Was leveling my tank to 70 (was 69) and was thinking "one level duty roulette should do the trick!" (it did). Got put into doma castle in my sweet augmented shire gear... . ..... lol. I was like "oh noe..... /Orz", since I was expecting copperbell or something for the 500th time (expected it not to allow me into newer stuff due to my gear).

    My HP yoyo'd significantly and I think I gave my healer some small heart pains lol, but we made it through (bosses were actually no problem, just pulling large groups was a bit .. fun). Through self healing and buff popping it was okay but yeah I personally didn't want to do that to my group.

    Is it wrong? If it's a one off thing on accident I don't think it's really "evil" or terribly "wrong", but I'd feel like a bad person if I did that a lot to people and already felt a bit bad about coming in with some really bad (for that content) gear. That said we made it through and some how I got commendations so.. ? (ty <3! Xd, I still feel a bit shy after that run lol). Promptly upgraded my gear at 70, after a few tomes on reset next week it'll all be very spiffy and updated (basically I've jumped 100 ilvls lol).

    If though you were like "I'm never going to upgrade my tank's gear and just coming in for that sweet sweet tank in need bonus" ... I could see people being disgruntled, and probably rightly so. Not sure you should be punished, that'd be a bit too far, but people being annoyed also being reasonable imo. In the end if SE allows you to get in then and you play your class within reason (not expecting perfection) then it's, imo, not really your fault lol. To clarify being annoyed doesn't mean they can rain hate (they should not, and it can be reported), but they could be like "your gear is making this dungeon stressful dude" and I'd call that fair.

    tl;dr, one off is probably not horrible but at least I'd feel like "I shouldn't be doing this" if it was more than that.
    (5)
    Last edited by Shougun; 12-17-2018 at 12:28 PM.

  9. #9
    Player
    Deceptus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    The Goblet - 16th Ward, Plot 55
    Posts
    4,418
    Character
    Deceptus Keelon
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by RokkuEkkusu View Post
    I only suggested i270 Augmented Shire Gear as a reasonable baseline for SB leveling dungeons. Back in Heavensward, we didn't have the "automatic item drop from beating the last boss" thing.
    We're not talking about HW here. . .
    (14)
    Veteran healers don't care if we need to heal, but right now we don't. We want interesting things to do during the downtime other than a 30s dot and a single filler spell that hasn't changed from lvl 4 to lvl 90.
    Dead DPS do no DPS. Raised DPS do 25/50% lower DPS. Do the mechanics and don't stand in bad stuff.
    Other games expect basic competence, FFXIV is pleasantly surprised by it. Other games have toxic elitism. FFXIV has toxic casualism.[/LIST]

  10. #10
    Player
    Rosentretter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    The Crystarium
    Posts
    346
    Character
    Theodore Rosentretter
    World
    Seraph
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Hmm... Castrum Abania is doable with i270, doing what previous people mentioned. Still, as a main tank, I think there's enough ways to have a better, decent ilvl at that point. I usually went with i270 until Bardam's Mettle, then gearing myself with that dungeon. The time it takes you to reach 67 you can already gear yourself to then go gear yourself with Doma Castle gear. It's a bit disrespectful to not be at a proper ilvl for that dungeon, since you make not only the healer do extra work, but everyone in the party (more MP/TP wasted between pulls, etc).
    (3)

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