4.5 WHM

**Atlantasia** · 01-08-2019 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Gemina

Or how about all three? PoM and Cleric Stance should have the same CD as they are often used together when they line up. PoM is basically Haste, and WHM having AoE haste has been requested for some time now. This still wouldn't bring them to par with SCH or AST, as AST and SCH can already AoE haste a raid, but at least it's something.

I mean, I'd love all three, but I don't dare to dream that we'd get that lucky. xD

**Gemina** · 01-08-2019 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by Atlantasia

I mean, I'd love all three, but I don't dare to dream that we'd get that lucky. xD

Actually, all three requests are very reasonable and maintain SE's "pure healer" identity for WHM. If your expectations for WHM in 5.0 are around this level, I think you will be happy come next expansion. Everything except a lily-tied AoE PoM is entirely possible this expansion, and if they did so would add considerable DPS for WHM and also improve single target DPS. It's those that have high expectations for considerable raid utility that will be disappointed. It just isn't the direction the devs want to go with WHM at all, and while they have changed their minds in the past, I seriously doubt that's happening with WHM come 5.0.

**Atlantasia** · 01-08-2019 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Gemina

Actually, all three requests are very reasonable and maintain SE's "pure healer" identity for WHM. If your expectations for WHM in 5.0 are around this level, I think you will be happy come next expansion. Everything except a lily-tied AoE PoM is entirely possible this expansion, and if they did so would add considerable DPS for WHM and also improve single target DPS. It's those that have high expectations for considerable raid utility that will be disappointed. It just isn't the direction the devs want to go with WHM at all, and while they have changed their minds in the past, I seriously doubt that's happening with WHM come 5.0.

I had high hopes for 4.0, being a long time raider with WHM. I've adjusted my expectations to much lower and more achievable within the parameters they've set up for the class already this time around. If they surprise me, I will be jumping for joy. If they don't, well, at this point I've mellowed to meh. I want White Mage to be great again. I cosplayed it at Fanfest, I loudly cheered when someone asked about WHM on the Q&A, but I just don't even want to get my hopes up only for them to be dashed again. Hence low expectations and that glimmer of hope still hiding somewhere inside me that I can't squash.

**Gemina** · 01-08-2019 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by Atlantasia

I had high hopes for 4.0, being a long time raider with WHM. I've adjusted my expectations to much lower and more achievable within the parameters they've set up for the class already this time around. If they surprise me, I will be jumping for joy. If they don't, well, at this point I've mellowed to meh. I want White Mage to be great again. I cosplayed it at Fanfest, I loudly cheered when someone asked about WHM on the Q&A, but I just don't even want to get my hopes up only for them to be dashed again. Hence low expectations and that glimmer of hope still hiding somewhere inside me that I can't squash.

WHM is my favorite job in the game, even in its current state. I see it for what it is, and not for what people want it to be. WHM in 4.0, despite all the "drawbacks" became even more fun for me to play. Now when I say drawbacks I am talking WHM having the most abilities of all the healers placed into role skills, not getting any utility, a questionable lily system being implemented, a jerky lv68 skill, and FULLY KNOWING that the other healers can do what they do better in raids. But how? Not even possible, right?

The reason is because WHM only became better at what it was already good at. Even though SCH and AST are better for raids, WHM is still better than it has ever been as a stand alone healer, and job. I think where myself and other WHM mains differ is that I am ok with it being leap frogged by the other two healers because I play the other two healers and have the option to bring them into high-end duties. At the end of the day, I am a healer main. Having all three leveled gives me the versatility to play whichever healer I feel is appropriate for the current instance.

So, if they continue to make WHM only better at what it is already good at in 5.0, I am perfectly fine with that. I actually prefer that over giving it game-changing utility. I already have two other healers for more complex and engaging gameplay should I choose it. My only gripe, is that WHM should be the SAM of healers. AST and SCH shouldn't even come close to comparable damage considering that they bring to a raid.

**HyoMinPark** · 01-08-2019 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by EaMett

Yeah WHM will always be unbalanced in a farm setting (less during progression) as long as they stick to the pure healer thing (which they have for the past what? 4 years now?). It's not that bad really, I haven't seen any lockouts in recent memory. But, regardless, right now the more important fact is that WHM is just outright clunky. It has no flow, clipping galore, instant GCDs that you can't fill, useless traits and gauge. That's what needs focus and is 5.0 material.

Just addressing the bolded part: the sad thing is, is that AST has taken over WHM as the prog healer. Especially in this tier where ASTs can pop Lightspeed during periods of heavy movement (e.g., o12s) and heal the party (or use Star), where as WHM struggles with any healing if movement involves. Meanwhile, all WHM had for heavy healing really was Cure III, which is less useful during things like Hello World because the party spends the majority of the time not being stacked up for it. ASTs struggle a tad more with MP compared to WHM, but they have tools at their disposal that WHM simply does not. Upload-wise, AST is dominating WHM in Savage.

The Assize change will give a bit more DPS. But between the clipping WHMs have when trying to weave in oGCDs like Assize, Tetra, Bene, or Divine Bension and early clipping of Aero II just to have an opportunity to weave, I don’t know how much they actually gained in the long run. Everyone saw what happened to AST when they reduced the cast time of Malefic III to 1.5s, and how their damage just shot up because they were no longer clipping their GCD every time they had to do card things.

Honestly, I think they should have given WHM the AST treatment of 1.5s cast times on Stone IV—to allow its personal DPS to increase and deal higher damage (for a healer) to offset the fact that it doesn’t have any answer to Balance. But, it somewhat doesn’t surprise me that they didn’t even do that.
And, sadly, it still may not have been enough. But I think it would have been better than the Assize change. Because now you’ll be clipping either your GCD or your Aero II DoT early every 45secs as opposed to 60secs.

**Bourne_Endeavor** · 01-08-2019 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by Songwillow

Personally I'm just glad that we are going to have a potency buff for assize (mainly for the MP gain) and a lower cooldown. WHM has MP management problems. I wonder if this will balance the WHM closer to SCH... now if only there was a better means of MP management for AST considering that trying to depend on RNG to get Ewer is beyong frustrating as well.

White Mages have a lot to complain about. MP management isn't one of them. Between Assize (pre-buff), Lucid and Thin Air, the only time you should have MP issues is if people are dying left and right. And this isn't unique to any one healer.

**Gemina** · 01-08-2019 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Just addressing the bolded part: the sad thing is, is that AST has taken over WHM as the prog healer. Especially in this tier where ASTs can pop Lightspeed during periods of heavy movement (e.g., o12s)

Quick question. Why would you mention that AST has taken over as the progression healer, and then use an endgame savage raid as an example? And AST can pop LS as soon as it is available to them for heavy movement. LS gives AST the potential to cheese mechanics, and actually probably needs to be on a much longer CD. It's OP right now.

AST honestly sucks for progression pre-60. How often are you taking AST over SCH or WHM outside expert roulettes? I'm guessing not at all, because one weakness this job has, is how insufferable it is outside of max level once you get there. This actually makes it the worst out of the three healers for progressive content. Of course, you can correct me if I am wrong.

**Bourne_Endeavor** · 01-08-2019 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Gemina

Quick question. Why would you mention that AST has taken over as the progression healer, and then use an endgame savage raid as an example? And AST can pop LS as soon as it is available to them for heavy movement. LS gives AST the potential to cheese mechanics, and actually probably needs to be on a much longer CD. It's OP right now.

AST honestly sucks for progression pre-60. How often are you taking AST over SCH or WHM outside expert roulettes? I'm guessing not at all, because one weakness this job has, is how insufferable it is outside of max level once you get there. This actually makes it the worst out of the three healers for progressive content. Of course, you can correct me if I am wrong.

I'm gonna be blunt here. No one cares about content outside end game. When we're talking about prog, we're specifically referring to Savage—EX Primals to a much lesser extent. White Mage does fine in dungeons, but when you can run through dungeons with three DPS and a tank, it's not exactly a setting people focus on.

Basically, you've said White Mage is good for the leveling process. Which is precisely the issue. Once you enter content that matters, Astro is hilariously superior in virtually every way.

**HyoMinPark** · 01-08-2019 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by Gemina

Quick question. Why would you mention that AST has taken over as the progression healer, and then use an endgame savage raid as an example?

Because the premise was “farm setting” versus “progression”—which is in reference to Savage raiding (and, to a lesser extent, EX primals). Not leveling progression.

Originally Posted by Gemina

And AST can pop LS as soon as it is available to them for heavy movement.

Which is what I said? Did you read my post? Did you read what I was responding to?

Originally Posted by Gemina

AST honestly sucks for progression pre-60. How often are you taking AST over SCH or WHM outside expert roulettes?

No one here is talking about Expert Roulette. No one here is talking about leveling progression. The premise is, again, a farm setting over progression—which is in reference to high-endgame content. Even the overall tone in this thread has been discussing WHM versus AST/SCH in end-game settings. Not pre-70 settings. Unless EaMett was talking about leveling progression (which I doubt since they mentioned “farm setting”), what you’re saying here about AST sucking for pre-60 progression is irrelevant. No one cares about “progression” in roulettes.

AST is the chosen healer for savage raids. It has always been the chosen healer for speedkills and optimization, and has taken over WHM as a progression healer this tier.

Originally Posted by Gemina

I'm guessing not at all, because one weakness this job has, is how insufferable it is outside of max level once you get there. This actually makes it the worst out of the three healers for progressive content. Of course, you can correct me if I am wrong.

For the third time: ”Progression” isn’t being used to refer to leveling.

Honestly, AST at 60 is not much different than it is at 70 — it lacks Earthly Star, Sleeve Draw, and Minor Arcana, but it functions virtually the same from 60 to 70. It’s only “insufferable” when you get synced down to pre-52 and cannot use Gravity. But we’re arguing opinions here.

**Yuyuka3** · 01-08-2019 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by Gemina

Quick question. Why would you mention that AST has taken over as the progression healer, and then use an endgame savage raid as an example? And AST can pop LS as soon as it is available to them for heavy movement. LS gives AST the potential to cheese mechanics, and actually probably needs to be on a much longer CD. It's OP right now.

AST honestly sucks for progression pre-60. How often are you taking AST over SCH or WHM outside expert roulettes? I'm guessing not at all, because one weakness this job has, is how insufferable it is outside of max level once you get there. This actually makes it the worst out of the three healers for progressive content. Of course, you can correct me if I am wrong.

Because endgame is the only part in the entire game where balance even matters! I don't get why that's so hard to understand. It's not rocket science. Also, "progression pre-60" made me laugh, but not in the good way. There is no progression pre-60. Wtf kind of raid do you want to progress pre-60? And why even mention roulette, which a trained ape could run? Laughable...

You even acknowledged that AST is op in endgame content, and answered your own question of why it was mentioned as a progression healer. Sorry, but that is a very badly thought-through post right there.

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