First Time Here

[Syrus718]

I thought this might be better Suited For the Tales From The Duty Finder Thread At First, But now as I watch this specific Ah... (Idiotic?) Behavior grow I started to wonder/ask when did the community make this ok?
With roughly every new patch Comes New Content, challenges, and players. I of course Understand this, but it seems like it's becoming a growing issue when someone announces it's their First Time Doing Content.
Examples I have watched a dps and healer run past the tank pulling every mob that they can along the way, Die and then blame the New Tank for the wipe. I've seen players gang up on a sprout in a mentor roulette for not watching a video before their first run. The fake Elitists shift Blame to the first timer even tho they missed their own mechanic causing the wipe. (Not knowing that when you play on console everything is automatically recorded and all you have to do is hit save) On Patch day in A 24 man raid secretly try to vote kick a healer who didnt want to dps because the did know the mechanics yet.
To me it has gotten so bad that If Your On The Aether Datacenter You Probably Play alongside Me and witnessed Me do it for Laughs, To Break The Ice or To See if Theres an A**hole in the group. My Last Straw is when I entered a [Loot] [Duty Complete] Suzaku Farm party finder and we Q'd inside the trial, I wrote first time here. immediately others found it funny and some even wrote Same But one person this one person in all caps went on to rant about how we dont belong in the farm party. This Could Have Been True except 2 people were equipped with Suzaku weapons and I Linked My Totem and all Suzaku weapons I had. On the top of the fact that No message appeared when we entered saying someone hadn't cleared.
After his threat of kick us or he'll leave I said this is getting out of hand. It's Not a Crime for someone to be a first timer to a duty or instance. Where is the By law or commandment for this? It Needs to Stop. I know sarcasm doesnt translate well in text But a player Said I'm out and left after I wrote "First Time Here, I'm On Ps3 And having Seen A Video" during a Tsukuyomi Farm (Face Palm)

P.s On Another Note I Understand Watching a video helps before doing new content but its should never be a requirement. Some Learn that way others learn through trial and error which is going to happen either way. At one point everyone was new to FFXIV

[Iscah]

Perhaps you need to not try "breaking the ice" by making pretend announcements that it's your first time, and then having to hold up the party to prove that you really aren't? (Which may or may not come off as an obnoxious "setup for a chance to show off all these Suzaku weapons I got already"...)

Clearly your sense of humour isn't going over very well with your party members.

If you'd just said hello, the whole thing might have gone smoothly and nobody would have had any issues with you at all. Instead the group got bogged down in an unnecessary discussion that left people with a negative opinion of you. Is that really "breaking the ice" and making the group more comfortable and friendly with each other? I think it's achieving the exact opposite, and making you -rightly or wrongly - perceived as the troublemaker at the source of it.


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Belated edit as I've hit my post limit for the moment, but I have to point out that just linking your Suzaku weapons isn't going to prove that you earned them, only that you recently looked at them somewhere and can re-link the items from the text log.

[KaivaC]

So...lemme see if I understand this right. You went into a farm party, said this was your first time here for shits and giggles, and now are complaining on the forums because people in said farm party took issue with you saying that this was your first time? And you don't see anything wrong with that sentiment at all? Just because you immediately showed that you had the weapons, doesn't mean that all is forgiven for what appears to be intentional trolling.

Suzaku has been around for a good while, so yes, if you join a farm party, you are expected to know a fight. If you join a clear party, you are expected to know the fight. Otherwise, you just might be wasting everybody else's time.

[Vidu]

So... let me break this down into what seems to be several complains, because all of them warrant a different response.

1) "Its my first time in this dungeon"
Dungeon in this context might be replaced by anything that isnt a Savage or Extreme Primal duty or in other words "casual content".
Those people should indeed not be belittled or mocked or in any other way robbed off a pleasent gaming experience provided they are doing two things: Playing their job appropratly for the given level of the duty in question (that means its okay for a tank to lose aggro in Sastasha during their very first run, but NOT okay for them to lose aggro in The Burn at level 70 - similar things apply to healers and dps, obviously) and that they either pick up mechanics fast enough by themself or listen to advice thats being presented to them in a polite manner.
Being new absolutly shouldnt mean getting harrassed, but it also includes the new person showing respect for the time of the other 3 people in the duty by trying their best instead of hiding behind "I'm new!" - this goes especially for people not being able to perform the basics of their jobs in endgame-content and then excusing that with being new to the dungeon.

2) Mean Mentors
This very much depends on the duty you get for your mentor roulette - as we all know it has a bunch of extremly complicated Ex-primal fights in there that are pretty much impossible to clear unless the majoruty knows the mechanics. And a fight like Thordan EX can hardly be explained during or before the run. Again, not a cause for harrassment but watching a video and informing yourself about those fights before queuing up is pretty much required. Sadly, the game does a very, very poor job of communicating to new people that EX-primals arent something they gonna clear using the DF. Not even with mentors. While I personally try my best to help them clear those fights, I honestly feel the two best advices you can give a new person in a duty like that is "Do this unsyched by using the PF" or "If you dont wanna do that, watch a video before you try this again".
Obviously this doesnt apply for normal duties, because they're so simple you dont need to watch videos in the first place.

3) Healer not dpsing on the first day of 24-men
Being anxious to a certain degree and more careful is understandable, but every healer has enough tools that allow them to quickly heal damage that occurs. Not knowing every mechanic thats gonna happen is not an excuse to stand around during those fights doing nothing most of the time. Being more careful - yes. Outright refusing to do something but stand around for a minute, waiting for the next thing to happen? Less acceptable, even on day one.
Like I mentioned earlier: This person is new to the content, not their job. I get wanting to play it safe, but thats no reason to basically not play at all.

4) Being "funny"
Humor is subjective and might not translate to well in a chat. Quite frankly, I find comments like the one you described making nothing but incredibly annoying and not the slightest bit funny. Call me humorless, but personally I want nice, clean farms, not some clown trying to "break the ice" with a comment thats doing nothing but raising red flags for people who have been burnt in the past by having people sneak into their farm-parties without knowing the fight.
People might not be paying attention to your weapons or to messages like that on the screen and they shouldnt have to just to notice something you consider a "joke". Joke around with people you know, dont try being funny with people that you dont and therefor have no idea how they're gonna react.
People in farm-parties might have been doing this content all day, are exhausted by now, just want their clean runs and are therefor a bit more sensitive, when it comes to "jokes" like that - and would rather run this content with someone who takes it more serious. Yes, its a game, yes, its supposed to be fun - but you need to accept that fun doesnt has the same meaning for everyone. Silly jokes might not be fun to the farm-parties you join.

5) Actually entering parties without the knowledge they're asking for
Obviously a simple No-no. Dont do that. Ever.
Dont enter a farm party if you dont have a few clears under your belt.
Dont enter a clear/enrage party if you havent seen the fight all the way through.
Dont enter a "practise phase X" party if you cant reach that phase comfortably.
If you're completly new to the fight, join a practise party from the start.
The "law" for this is the requirement that the party leader set for their PF.



Its not a crime to be new as long as you're trying your best and are being honest about it and respectful towards your fellow party-members.
Being new obviously doesnt mean that harrassment is okay - of course not!
But it also doesnt strip that person of any and every responsibility. Certain content does require a certain preperation and certain knowledge and skill has to be reasonably expected at a certain point.

We all need to treat each other with respect - the vets the new people by helping them the best they can; the new people by trying their best in return... and everyone by not making stupid comments that might be received the wrong way and cause unnecessary drama.

[Syrus718]

Perhaps you need to not try "breaking the ice" by making pretend announcements that it's your first time, and then having to hold up the party to prove that you really aren't? (Which may or may not come off as an obnoxious "setup for a chance to show off all these Suzaku weapons I got already"...)

Clearly your sense of humour isn't going over very well with your party members.

If you'd just said hello, the whole thing might have gone smoothly and nobody would have had any issues with you at all. Instead the group got bogged down in an unnecessary discussion that left people with a negative opinion of you. Is that really "breaking the ice" and making the group more comfortable and friendly with each other? I think it's achieving the exact opposite, and making you -rightly or wrongly - perceived as the troublemaker at the source of it.

Maybe I Miscommunicationed the fact That I started saying first Time here Long after Seeing first timers be chastised in every kind of content but your Response is definitely way off tone. I have never been kicked or percieved as obnoxious in duty. I do not farm with Suzaku weapons nor would it matter if I did. You Clearly missed the fact that Ive said I've done it after Every Check point there is to assure that no new player is the instance were passed there still are some who act like first timers are public enemy... but I like how you skipped over everything else to try and make a point out something you misinterpreted congrats for probably being one of them.

[HyoMinPark]

I have never been kicked or percieved as obnoxious in duty.

How do you know this to be the case, though? Can you read the minds of everyone you’ve partied with? People can find someone obnoxious and not say anything.

I like how you skipped over everything else to try and make a point out something you misinterpreted congrats for probably being one of them.

Iscah is one of the more patient posters here. Be they’re now an “elitist” because, what? They said something you don’t agree with?


On first timers: they aren’t a “public enemy”, but they do have no business being in an EX farm party with no clear. Does that give people the right to be jerks? No. But a newcomer sneaking into a farm or a weekly 2-chest party is being incredibly inconsiderate.

[Vidu]

Maybe I Miscommunicationed the fact That I started saying first Time here Long after Seeing first timers be chastised in every kind of content but your Response is definitely way off tone. I have never been kicked or percieved as obnoxious in duty. I do not farm with Suzaku weapons nor would it matter if I did. You Clearly missed the fact that Ive said I've done it after Every Check point there is to assure that no new player is the instance were passed there still are some who act like first timers are public enemy... but I like how you skipped over everything else to try and make a point out something you misinterpreted congrats for probably being one of them.

You actually dont know that you havent been percieved as obnoxious. Unless I missunderstood your intial post you described two instances in which people actually were so annoyed by your "funny" comment (do I need to mention again how I dont find it funny at all?) that they either ranted - rightfully, considering their first assumption was that someone was sneaking into a farm-party without proper knowledge - or left the party?
Do you really think those two people didnt thought of you as being an annoying and obnoxious person?

Farming Ex-primals is daunting and the whole thing about first timers sneaking into farm parties is a sensible topic that I dare say most people wouldnt think is extremly hilarious.
Not everyone might be aware of all the check points in place - and actually: its only ONE check point and thats when queueing up for the duty and chosing "Duty Complete", which is enterily in the hands of the party-leader who may or may not check it, without anyone but themself knowing if they did.
Missing the "Someone is new, here is your bonus!"-message is easy enough for someone to assume they just did that when they read "first time" in chat.

You even admit yourself that you know that sarcasm doesnt work well in chat and might not work for everyone in the first place. And while being new isnt a crime - sneaking into a party you dont belong kinda "is". So maybe dont joke about it if you cant be sure that everyone will get it and will find it funny.
If people leave parties after you made such a comment it might not be that great of an "ice breaker" after all.

[Syrus718]

How do you know this to be the case, though? Can you read the minds of everyone you’ve partied with? People can find someone obnoxious and not say anything.



Iscah is one of the more patient posters here. Be they’re now an “elitist” because, what? They said something you don’t agree with?


On first timers: they aren’t a “public enemy”, but they do have no business being in an EX farm party with no clear. Does that give people the right to be jerks? No. But a newcomer sneaking into a farm or a weekly 2-chest party is being incredibly inconsiderate.

As I stated usually the response is Same Here Followed By Laughter... "Its Been My First Time For The Past 84 Runs" someone makes a Mistake on a mechanic the first time here jokes start. Especially when youv'e been in said farm party for over 20 runs already as I said No one Cares About 1st timers in all of these situations except that one person who decides to go out their way to make a first timer feel bad for being new

[Barraind]

Mentor roulette is getting a LOT of "these arent on any roulette, why do people keep queuing for them" trials the last couple weeks.

If I have to do any more synced ARR primal with people who have no idea what's going on, I'm going to pull my hair out. Spending 55 minutes in a trial I regularly solo unsynced (I see you over there, Garuda/Titan) in 2 is not my idea of a good or pleasant time.

[HyoMinPark]

As I stated usually the response is Same Here Followed By Laughter... "Its Been My First Time For The Past 84 Runs" someone makes a Mistake on a mechanic the first time here jokes start. Especially when youv'e been in said farm party for over 20 runs already

So which was it? You made a joke as you queued in? Or you made a joke as soon as someone fudged up a mechanic and caused a wipe? Or you made a joke about being new to a farm group after doing ~20 runs with them?

as I said No one Cares About 1st timers in all of these situations except that one person who decides to go out their way to make a first timer feel bad for being new

People generally don’t like first timers sneaking into farm groups for Extremes or weekly clear groups for Savage. More often than not, they go out of their way to hope people don’t notice they’re new, and they typically don’t have the experience they claim they’ve had (e.g., “I’ve been to Enrage” but hasn’t actually been there). People are looking for efficient clears, not to help someone clear. That’s what clear parties are for.

First timers shouldn’t feel bad for being new. But they should feel bad for sneaking into FARM groups and expecting the group to just smile and take them with no questions asked, or sneaking into a party for something that they have absolutely no business being in (like inexperienced players sneaking into Savage parties because they “done normal mode and Savage probably isn’t much different”—yes, I did have someone say this to me once).

I give new players 3 pulls before I leave, and really, that goes for farm groups in general. If it takes more than 3 pulls to clear, that’s not a farm.