Can any WoW refugees explain the exodus to XIV to me?

[Rawry]

I have played both WoW and ffxiv since their releases (more WoW than FF) and I can say they are both awesome in their own right. For me though WoW just got boring and repetitive. Different story each expansion sure.. but in the end its all the same grind. FFXIV is grindy too.. but its a different grind so I'm ok with it.. for now. lol

[KaivaC]

I wonder...I know the mods are peeking in the bigger threads, I wonder if there is a way to ping them and request that they ensure that this thread and the other current WoW one reaches out to the dev team. These are very serious concerns that we consumers have and I would love to hope that these pitfalls reach Yoshi P and his team. XIV hasn't reached the lows that apparently WoW has, but the signs do appear to be there. So mods, if you guys are looking in this thread, can you please try to get this out to the dev team?

[Kaerna]

The extreme time gating, piece meal release of content and even unnecessary time gating all points to the fact that the accountants and finance guys are running the show now. They release the game without all the features that was mention and recently they release a patch (8.1) without all the content of that patch (no raids, higher iLvl gear, Zandalari & Kultiran). That coupled with the loads of bugs (which lead to the joke that Blizzard is an indie company) shows that they're trying to milk as much cash from WoW. I think the announcement of Diablo immortals solidifies the fact. Before I decided to quit WoW I was effectively playing 6-9 hours a week only turning up for raids.

I paid $30 for FF14 complete edition and it comes with 30+ game time and I'm getting a solid 30+ hours of game time a week. WoW still have better game play overall and more refined but FF14 ultimately is more...fun and enjoyable.

[Noodle_Trinidad]

The extreme time gating, piece meal release of content and even unnecessary time gating all points to the fact that the accountants and finance guys are running the show now. They release the game without all the features that was mention and recently they release a patch (8.1) without all the content of that patch (no raids, higher iLvl gear, Zandalari & Kultiran). That coupled with the loads of bugs (which lead to the joke that Blizzard is an indie company) shows that they're trying to milk as much cash from WoW. I think the announcement of Diablo immortals solidifies the fact. Before I decided to quit WoW I was effectively playing 6-9 hours a week only turning up for raids.

Except that sounds exactly like FFXIV as well, Stormblood more specifically. Most of our content this whole expansion has been piece mealed to hell and back to further extend its longevity cause as it stands most of it will be done by the majority of the playerbase in the first week of release. Are we going to just forget how Eureka, one of the big features of this expansion, was spaced out so hard that they were entirely irrelevant in terms of gear the second they came out? Or for gating, how much are we told we can be all classes yet get gated so hard that you can't even gear anything past 1 class effectively. Sure you can buy the crafted armor but the way the game itemizes everything that gear in of itself is worthless past the first weeks of a new raid tier. The only thing I can give a pass to is the 4.5 and 4.55 patches as they are a trend with the game since 2.X and are obviously spaced to make sure they stay fresh with the upcoming expansion stories. We need to remember FFXIV essentially follows the base of WoW itself and with its bigger focus on drop in/out casual content, which isn't bad in of itself if they give us reason to run most content more than once, they have only sped up the problems that arised with WoW. Hell I wouldnt be surprised if 6.0 came with a Number Squish give how fast our iLvls are climbing.

Also where is this rumor of WoWfugees joining en mass even coming from? The latest Bancho Census in of itself showed that we only retain a solid 410k concurrent players with 200k this time around being new or returning players with the 80k we lost last time not even fully returning? We got 60k back at best, though thats not too bad in terms of bringing people back.

[Penthea]

I quit WoW at the end of WoD, which was two expansions ago. I had already bought a physical copy of the collector's edition of Legion and it's still sealed in plastic. By the time that expansion launched I had no energy left for WoW.

I could go on for a very long while about my grievances with WoW and how FFXIV ended up being the game I should have been playing all along. The mass exodus from WoW really boils down to how players are fed-up that Blizzard are riding on an outdated reputation, and players' difficulty of letting go of characters they worked on for over a decade. They're sick of having hope and promises dangled in front of them only to be disappointed. Again and again and again. I ended up migrating to FFXIV because I found the unfulfilled promises Blizzard made to be already fulfilled in FFXIV.

Some of the most talented game developers in the world work for Blizzard and they're one of the wealthiest game companies in the world...and for years they have managed to repeatedly produce ill-thought out content despite the copious amount of feedback and resources they have. Why? Because the Blizzard that set the standard for mmorpgs for a decade has grown cocky. They don't take feedback seriously, and for a long time it worked because there was no other mmorpg on the market that could even vaguely compete. Why bother working hard to maintain a great standard when you still make billions even when you don't? But times have changed. There are more options now, and patience has become thinner with time.

On top of that almost all the other Blizzard franchises are suffering from neglect in some manner. It's very difficult to have faith in Blizzard's ability to fix WoW when you're also watching their other games suffer a similar fate.

I think it's very telling that not only have most of the founders of Blizzard left, but also Bungie are ending their partnership with Activision (Blizzard are still partnered merged with Activision). That is not to say that I absolve Blizzard of all guilt, because they definitely grew very cocky. Activision just made things worse. They're likely responsible for the push towards microtransactions, as well as leaving Diablo's loyal pc gamer fanbase (that existed for 20 years) behind in favour of chinese mobile gamers.

Things really don't look good for Blizzard on multiple fronts. There is a messy combination of a company outgrowing its outdated reputation being swallowed up by another company that makes content for shareholders instead of gamers.

[Jojoya]

Also where is this rumor of WoWfugees joining en mass even coming from? The latest Bancho Census in of itself showed that we only retain a solid 410k concurrent players with 200k this time around being new or returning players with the 80k we lost last time not even fully returning? We got 60k back at best, though thats not too bad in terms of bringing people back.

The Bancho census is still dependent on players hitting certain MSQ milestones as far as I know. Unless a new player is rushing to hit level cap as fast as possible, it's going to take them a while to start hitting those specific milestones. I've met several new players that have been so distracted by side content that they've fallen behind on MSQ progression (one is level 67 but just unlocked Forelands in MSQ, another is 61 and still hasn't done Praetorium yet).

As long as there are enough players for SE to keep operating the game and adding new content, does it really matter?

I think it's very telling that not only have most of the founders of Blizzard left, but also Bungie are ending their partnership with Activision (Blizzard are still partnered with Activision).

Bungie is not part of the Activision Blizzard holding company. It's always been an independent studio contracting Activision to publish the games they create. Now they're established enough they're going to publish on their own.

That's very different from the relationship between Activision and Blizzard, which are separate companies joined under one holding company. It's still disappointing that Activision is finally pushing out the creation oriented executive forces at Blizzard to replace them with business oriented executives but not surprising. It always happens when the numbers people think they know what consumers want more than the creative people do.

[Penthea]

Bungie is not part of the Activision Blizzard holding company. It's always been an independent studio contracting Activision to publish the games they create. Now they're established enough they're going to publish on their own.

I'm well aware that the nature of Bungie's partnership is quite different to the merger of Activision and Blizzard. I was more referring to how the timing of Bungie's departure is very interesting considering the progressively bad state of Blizzard. It heavily implies that both have a poor relationship with Activision.

I just read that Bungie have partnered with Netease, a chinese mobile company, but it's to create a new game for/with them. Not to have them involved in Destiny. Likely Bungie will use funds from that partnership for Destiny 3.

I honestly think we might be watching the end of Blizzard. They can't leave Activision as easily as Bungie because they're Activision-Blizzard. Bungie was never Activision-Bungie. The fact that most of Blizzard's founders have left leads many to think that they either gave up fighting Activision for power over Blizzard, or they're waiting for Blizzard to lose a tremendous amount of value to buy it back. Maybe both. But even if they do buy it back I don't know if Blizzard can recover. They were already showing signs of dismissing community feedback long before we saw any hints that Activision were digging their claws into them.

[KaivaC]

I'm well aware that the nature of Bungie's partnership is quite different to the merger of Activision and Blizzard. I was more referring to how the timing of Bungie's departure is very interesting considering the progressively bad state of Blizzard. It heavily implies that both have a poor relationship with Activision.

I just read that Bungie have partnered with Netease, a chinese mobile company, but it's to create a new game for/with them. Not to have them involved in Destiny. Likely Bungie will use funds from that partnership for Destiny 3.

I honestly think we might be watching the end of Blizzard. They can't leave Activision as easily as Bungie because they're Activision-Blizzard. Bungie was never Activision-Bungie. The fact that most of Blizzard's founders have left leads many to think that they either gave up fighting Activision for power over Blizzard, or they're waiting for Blizzard to lose a tremendous amount of value to buy it back. Maybe both. But even if they do buy it back I don't know if Blizzard can recover. They were already showing signs of dismissing community feedback long before we saw any hints that Activision were digging their claws into them.

I'm not as well-versed with WoW, but I am familiar with their other major IPs going back to Diablo and Starcraft. I don't think the end of the Blizzard name is here, per se, but it's clear that they are a husk of their former shells. The name will stay because it still carries significant value, but Blizzard as we know it is long gone. Blizzard will likely stay in much the same vein that Treyarch Studios and Infinity Ward will stay, because those names still hold value.

[Penthea]

I'm not as well-versed with WoW, but I am familiar with their other major IPs going back to Diablo and Starcraft. I don't think the end of the Blizzard name is here, per se, but it's clear that they are a husk of their former shells. The name will stay because it still carries significant value, but Blizzard as we know it is long gone. Blizzard will likely stay in much the same vein that Treyarch Studios and Infinity Ward will stay, because those names still hold value.

The Blizzard brand will likely stay, but the place it holds in the gaming industry is already falling. We're watching the end of their reign.

• WoW has had unaddressed problems for several expansions in a row. Too many to list. The short version is Blizzard blatantly ignore community feedback and take loyalty for granted. Players are leaving because they're sick of waiting for improvement and watching repeated mistakes.
• Diablo 3 has suffered from a lack of content for several years. It's a great game but no matter how good a game is you eventually get fed up of the same thing. Announcing Diablo Immortal as solely on mobile is a kick in the teeth to the die-hard Diablo fanbase that has existed for 20 years who always played the series on pc. It shows that Blizzard either do not care about or do not understand their audience.
• Heroes of The Storm has had Esports focus stripped away and they have moved devs from there to another game. It has also gotten a tremendous amount of criticism for micro transactions, specifically towards event bundles. For example you have to buy the whole bundle even if you only want one item.
• There have been surveys asking players how they would feel if Esports was removed from Hearthstone. This looks quite similar to what has recently happened with HOTS.
• Overwatch, like Diablo 3, is a great game suffering from a lack of content and players are getting bored. I hear it also has long-time unaddressed balance issues. The recent reveal of Soldier 76 being gay is being labelled as empty virtue signalling. Likely because players want content. Not a sexuality reveal that has zero impact on gameplay.
• I think Starcraft is the only franchise that hasn't yet had anything superbly worrying happen to it. Judging from the rest it looks like it's only a matter of time.

I think we can all agree that the above list is very alarming.

Personally I find it hard to believe we're watching anything but Blizzard's downfall. Almost every game is suffering from some form of neglect. When I quit WoW it was because of WoW. I continued to play HOTS and Diablo until recently. However some of my friends who quit in 2018/19 have said they're leaving Blizzard as a whole behind. They're looking at the state of all their games and have lost hope.

Blizzard the brand may stick around but the quality they became known for has been slipping for years and it's showing no signs of stopping.

I really hope Blizzard will recover and return to maintaining the great reputation they were known for, but it seems unlikely. Their relationship with Activision is much more complex than a mere partnership. They can't just leave like Bungie did.

[KageTokage]

I wonder...I know the mods are peeking in the bigger threads, I wonder if there is a way to ping them and request that they ensure that this thread and the other current WoW one reaches out to the dev team. These are very serious concerns that we consumers have and I would love to hope that these pitfalls reach Yoshi P and his team. XIV hasn't reached the lows that apparently WoW has, but the signs do appear to be there. So mods, if you guys are looking in this thread, can you please try to get this out to the dev team?

It takes a really, really massive outcry for anything to get noticed on the forums as far as I can tell.

The housing issues and the Ungermax exploit were the only things big enough to warrant a personal response from Yoshi P.