Performance-based roll system

[Seraphor]

Even if that was true (it might just be you having no luck ending with bad/selfish rdms) that's not a reason to make that even worse by inciting people of thinking of their group dps only.

I did take that as an example, but we can imagine players with aoes markers going on purpose near other groups players, so that their heals gets busy healing them rather than doing more dps. Or for the same purpose tanks turning the boss towards other groups when a big cleave is coming. No tanks wanting to be the main defensive one because "my dps". A full roster group in 400+ stuff getting the bonus despite not needing such low level stuff, while the two others less geared groups who actually need more drops will in fact get less. Players with parsers leaving the raid when they see they will not get more drops. And so on. I am sure that there is tons of other points that will make 24 man raids way more toxic if you bring competition between players into them, instead of keeping them as as a common goal to reach together.

I cant see people compromising the entire raid simply for the chance at one extra drop, when the risk of wiping would mean simply running the raid another time would probably be more beneficial.

[CorbinDallas]

People with disabilities would be punished for this. Anyone who is partially blind, mentally challenged, and/or physically unable to play easily would be brutally punished.

Keep this kind of system in savage/extreme/ultimate if it is ever implemented.

Not to be disrespectful or anything, but that's on them. If someone can play a game at a respectable level using their feet then nobody has any excuse. You can't expect everything in life to be tailor made for a tiny minority of users, video games least of all.

There are also failsafes in place for these people in the form of tomestones and other token related gear that is 100% guaranteed regardless of effort or participation, so that's a moot point entirely.

[Miste]

Any ideas on how we can make rolling on loot somewhat performance-based? I'm mainly talking about the non-savage duty funder type stuff like dungeons, normal raids, trials, etc. It would be nice to reward people who perform with a +20 to whatever they would've rolled so that there's an incentive to do your best instead of letting people carry you. It's kind of annoying to see players die to easy mechanics 4 times, contribute nothing, and then win the loot with a 95 roll while the people who actually did the work lose out.

This idea won't work.

You are not thinking hard enough about all circumstances.

Other players can get you killed, lower your dps by making mistakes that you must correct, and lower healer performance due to too many mistakes they must correct. Tanks can die while using cooldowns and playing properly simply due to healer mistakes.

Say a mechanic happens which I do correctly, but the other players do not do it right and as a result I die. My performance goes down even though it wasnt my fault I died. There are plenty of ways to kill another player and ruin their performance while not dying yourself.

The system would need to be waaaay too precise to properly calculate all these possibilities.

[Mansion]

Dude come on don't exaggerate. 2 raises are no issue except you died before.
But yeah its a good idea to not die and the next thing that a healer will say to everyone in the party is: "nah i won't heal you i have to do dps myself, just avoid to take damage"

Well no, really. Two raises back to back is 7 200 MP. RDM have 14 400 MP. If we play full uptime, we mostly sit around 7 - 8 000 MP most of the time, with Lucid Dreaming used on cooldown.
A RDM can raise roughly once every 90 seconds, if Lucid Dreaming is used on CD. A little less if there is a Refresh Song.

Now the healer not healing is another problem. But it's everyone's job to avoid unnecessary healing too!

[Ilan]

Well no, really. Two raises back to back is 7 200 MP. RDM have 14 400 MP. If we play full uptime, we mostly sit around 7 - 8 000 MP most of the time, with Lucid Dreaming used on cooldown.
A RDM can raise roughly once every 90 seconds, if Lucid Dreaming is used on CD. A little less if there is a Refresh Song.

Now the healer not healing is another problem. But it's everyone's job to avoid unnecessary healing too!

Its funny that there are RDM who can raise and others have mana issues.

Of course it is everyones job to avoid dmg and to avoid dying, but it doesn't always work out the ideal way and you should know that.

[Reynhart]

There are plenty of ways to kill another player and ruin their performance while not dying yourself.

That's exactly why you would need a system that rewards the whole team for doing good and not reward each person. Worst case scenario, if you're personally rewarded for your DPS, it would be to your benefit to help other DPS die so that you'd have to take care of monsters more.

If the team as a whole is rewarded, you'll have no reason to backstab people.

[Liam_Harper]

If the team as a whole is rewarded, you'll have no reason to backstab people.

But then you're no longer just aiming for a kill, you're aiming for a smooth, fast kill. The goalposts move. Now you have plenty of reason to remove the weak link from your group.

[CorbinDallas]

But then you're no longer just aiming for a kill, you're aiming for a smooth, fast kill. The goalposts move. Now you have plenty of reason to remove the weak link from your group.

That is a problem why? We already remove weak links from party finder content, which is where the majority of this discussion is aimed at, and we have every right to.

[DamianFatale]

Not to be disrespectful or anything, but that's on them. If someone can play a game at a respectable level using their feet then nobody has any excuse. You can't expect everything in life to be tailor made for a tiny minority of users, video games least of all.

There are also failsafes in place for these people in the form of tomestones and other token related gear that is 100% guaranteed regardless of effort or participation, so that's a moot point entirely.

My point is not moot. Yours is. The fact that you would support making it harder for these people to play is sick, and shows a lack of compassion on your part.

[Reynhart]

But then you're no longer just aiming for a kill, you're aiming for a smooth, fast kill. The goalposts move. Now you have plenty of reason to remove the weak link from your group.

People already go for the fastest run available, nothing moves from that. However, if you have a reward for your tank taking less damage, you'll probably see more or them keeping their stance.