Gating interesting content behind artificial side leveling

[BillyKaplan]

shouldn't get anything interesting at the end of their grind

You basically admitted Eureka is boring. So I don't see why people should run it as much as they do because it encourages the devs to make more boring, uninspired content.

You could use your logic for the other side as well. If you're not the crowd that runs Eureka, then you have no business doing the Dungeon that is tied to it in the first place.

Reread my post because I said the exact opposite. Savage and Ultimate are both on the same "casual" axis - the content difficulty one. Yoshi himself said that people who completed Eureka don't have to run that Dungeon because it's "too stressful". It's content not intended for that crowd in the first place. So locking it behind Eureka is obviously meant not for the people already running Eureka, but the people who don't, and want more engaging, interesting content. This is even more an obvious "please run Eureka" than locking the relic itself behind Eureka was - and that was pretty obvious.

[Haxaan]

You basically admitted Eureka is boring. So I don't see why people should run it as much as they do because it encourages the devs to make more boring, uninspired content.



Reread my post because I said the exact opposite. Savage and Ultimate are both on the same "casual" axis - the content difficulty one. Yoshi himself said that people who completed Eureka don't have to run that Dungeon because it's "too stressful". It's content not intended for that crowd in the first place. So locking it behind Eureka is obviously meant not for the people already running Eureka, but the people who don't, and want more engaging, interesting content. This is even more an obvious "please run Eureka" than locking the relic itself behind Eureka was - and that was pretty obvious.

I know you said the opposite, hence why I said your logic could be used to defend the other side. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't true. You are to blinded by your hate for Eureka to see it. I think you are reading Yoshi's words incorrectly as well. He said people who finish Eureka do not have to run the dungeon, as you do not need to clear it to progress the story. The Dungeon is supposed to be an extra present for people who have stuck with Eureka this whole time and would like some challenging content. Think of it like PoTD. Once you clear lvl 50 the story is over, but if you'd like to continue going for a more challenging experience you may. I feel like a lot of people are complaining because they chose to not do content and now they feel like they have to because there is a goody they don't get to have without working for it. Same with the Relic. We ALL knew the relic was going to be tied to Eureka when Eureka was very first announced. No one seemed to care about it at the time because the hardcore people who always get their relic were going to do the content regardless of what it was. There are plenty of people who actually like Eureka, myself included, so I am excited to be able to try my hand at the Dungeon, even if it sucks. There are plenty of things to do in this game, not all content is made for everyone. And to use your own logic, there are two types of Casual, content and time. Just because Savage and Ultimate is content, Relic and Eureka are time. If you don't want to put in the time, then I'm sorry, you don't get to do the Dungeon.

[BillyKaplan]

block of text

Please space your text so people can have an easier time replying to you, thanks.

I know you said the opposite, hence why I said your logic could be used to defend the other side. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't true. You are to blinded by your hate for Eureka to see it.

That in and of itself is something I can throw back at you, you realize that, yes? Be it because you like it and don't want people to hate it, or because having spent so much time into it, you feel obligated to defend it. No one here is objective so pointing out someone isn't isn't really tilting the balance of the debate either way. At best it's kind of pointless, at worst it's an ad hominem. And just because someone hates Eureka doesn't mean their reasons for it are weak or illogical - or that the hate came first, mind.

Think of it like PoTD.

But it's not. The time sink required for PotD and Eureka is incomperable. The amount of time it take you to clear Eureka the once, even with some nerfs, is comparable maybe to how long it takes you to get down to the deepest floor in PotD. And it's still a gradual progression in difficulty. It's not like what Yoshi said, where it's a raid at the end of what is difficulty wise (to set apart from time-sink wise) possibly the single most casual content in the game. It's like clearing HM -> Extreme/Savage -> Ultimate. More of the same just harder. From what Yoshi said, Eureka is not even on the same content axes as the dungeon. So no, it's nothing like PotD.

We ALL knew the relic was going to be tied to Eureka when Eureka was very first announced. No one seemed to care about it at the time

Because they kept saying it'd be nothing like Diadem. But it's arguably worse.

There are plenty of things to do in this game, not all content is made for everyone.

Eureka was one of the expansion's selling points. They can try and backpedal all they want by saying it wasn't meant for everyone, but at this point it just sounds like excuses because of how badly it failed. Eureka took development time away from other content. It's the only type of content we have to throw ourselves at. If it's not meant for everyone, by all means, release content aimed at other demographics and not just Eureka. But they're not doing it because Eureka was, in fact, aimed at the wider demographic, and they don't have the time and resources to give viable alternatives. A case can be made as to why despite saying how difficult it is to release a new job outside of an expansion release, they're releasing BLU at 4.5 - because it was stable enough and it gives people something to do that isn't Eureka.

If you don't want to put in the time, then I'm sorry, you don't get to do the Dungeon.

but that's what I'm saying - you shouldn't have to go through one content type to get to the other, that's the fallacy here. And in fact has always been the trade off - either you complete difficult content, or you invest a lot of time in something not as difficult. But now they're tying one to the other, breaking that mold. and it was a mold that made sense, is the problem.

[Reynhart]

They can try and backpedal all they want by saying it wasn't meant for everyone, but at this point it just sounds like excuses because of how badly it failed.

That's literally the first thing they said about Eureka. Maybe you should have paid more attention and not blindly expect what Eureka was never meant to be.

but that's what I'm saying - you shouldn't have to go through one content type to get to the other, that's the fallacy here.

You're complaining that they gate Eureka behind...Eureka. wow, just wow...