Combo Action Button

[Daniolaut]

I disagree that ability bloat even exists.

I use gamepad and have plenty plenty of space. We are allowed up to 8 hot bars and I dont even really use half of that.... and have tons of empty spaces. (excluding the 4 hot bars I dont even use.)

If they reduce the number of actions again, I fear they gut the jobs even worse at lower levels, and people complain about low level content and high level content....

Can someone tell me which content they prefer? If low level is "horribly boring" and high level content is "too confusing with ability bloat" what is the magical number. at level 50 we have 26 abilities with role actions, and you dont even use all of them. I dont know anyone who prefers level 50 content really. Surely you dont want to have the game play like it was in A Realm Reborn? I even saw people say stuff like 10 abtilites or so. Thats like level 30..... You guys want the devs to sync the game down to level 30 content?

[Lastelli]

I disagree that ability bloat even exists.

I use gamepad and have plenty plenty of space.

Agreed. I'm amazed this thread is still going on to be honest. People just need to be smart when they set their skills. Button bloat is a non-issue in this game, even if you're using a gamepad.

And please let's avoid using physical handicap as a reason to dumb down the combat system. That's ridiculous. What's next? Have the game play itself because there are people with no hands (literally) that would like to enjoy the story? Please.

[Thamorian]

I disagree that ability bloat even exists.

I use gamepad and have plenty plenty of space. We are allowed up to 8 hot bars and I dont even really use half of that.... and have tons of empty spaces. (excluding the 4 hot bars I dont even use.)

If they reduce the number of actions again, I fear they gut the jobs even worse at lower levels, and people complain about low level content and high level content....

Can someone tell me which content they prefer? If low level is "horribly boring" and high level content is "too confusing with ability bloat" what is the magical number. at level 50 we have 26 abilities with role actions, and you dont even use all of them. I dont know anyone who prefers level 50 content really. Surely you dont want to have the game play like it was in A Realm Reborn? I even saw people say stuff like 10 abtilites or so. Thats like level 30..... You guys want the devs to sync the game down to level 30 content?

Not all of us want to use more than 3 hotbars during combat that we quick access with L2/R2, L2+R2/R2+L2 and R2+R2/L2+L2 and some jobs do fill 3 hard bars up a bit much. Some of us do not want to suffer through the awkwardness of scrolling through crossbars with R1 or R1+Directional/Face button.

[Daniolaut]

Not all of us want to use more than 3 hotbars during combat that we quick access with L2/R2, L2+R2/R2+L2 and R2+R2/L2+L2 and some jobs do fill 3 hard bars up a bit much. Some of us do not want to suffer through the awkwardness of scrolling through crossbars with R1 or R1+Directional/Face button.

No one has to.

You absolutely cannot fill up 3 hot bars with the current number of actions.
(edit except for SCH/SMN including all role abilities + all pet actions.)

I dont know what all those buttom combos mean in your comment but it sounds like you arent doing something correctly. I only press R1 and R2 and L2. Thats it...
and ...
Square, Triangle, Circle... thats it...

like most of the time.. thats it.

I also never press R1 and Directional buttons. Ever.

I also use all actions, and have access to all actions.

I also also only use 3 hot bars, and a 4th "role ability" hotbar that I get to by pressing R1 plus Square. thats. it. R1, S > T > C, thats it!

Its not confusing. its super simple. and I have lotttsss of empty space. Using only 3 hot bars.

And yet it does, though it has gotten a lot better since ARR/HW. Back when Stone, Malefic etc and their different levels took up their own keybind space.

Even now there are abilities that serve no purpose being their own separate actions. Impact, for example, shouldn't have to be a separate spell on the hotbar, just bundle it into Jolt II.

Just because it can fit on your bars doesn't mean it isn't bloat. Having an ability/skill for the sake of it, is bloat.

Interesting how you responded to me without saying what the magic number is. I specifically asked what people consider the magic number.

So youre saying you can have 500 abilities, so long as they all are useful its not ability bloat? So long as they ... arent an ability for the sake of it? I disagree completely with that statement.

If you arent saying that, and the number of abilities is the problem, I would ask that you say what the magic number is. Keep in mind that level 30, which most players find boring, is about 10-15 actions or thereabout. Level 50 is 26 actions/abilities.

[SDaemon]

I disagree that ability bloat even exists.

And yet it does, though it has gotten a lot better since ARR/HW. Back when Stone, Malefic etc and their different levels took up their own keybind space.

Even now there are abilities that serve no purpose being their own separate actions. Impact, for example, shouldn't have to be a separate spell on the hotbar, just bundle it into Jolt II.

Just because it can fit on your bars doesn't mean it isn't bloat. Having an ability/skill for the sake of it, is bloat.

[Shurrikhan]

And yet it does, though it has gotten a lot better since ARR/HW. Back when Stone, Malefic etc and their different levels took up their own keybind space.

Even now there are abilities that serve no purpose being their own separate actions. Impact, for example, shouldn't have to be a separate spell on the hotbar, just bundle it into Jolt II.

Just because it can fit on your bars doesn't mean it isn't bloat. Having an ability/skill for the sake of it, is bloat.

Sorry to argue technicals, but... how is that an example of bloat? Stone I was literally the current Role Action Break but... 50% more potency, and thus had situational reason to exist. Malefic II was never used at the same time as Malefic I. The only change to occur with 'skill pruning' was that you didn't have to swap it manually when level synced. That's more a QoL change than anything anti-bloat. For comparison, changes like Fell Cleave <> Inner Beast did reduce button bloat, albeit without doing anything to skill bloat (which WAR never much had, fortunately).

To the rest, though, completely agreed.

[Vrankyl]

And yet it does, though it has gotten a lot better since ARR/HW. Back when Stone, Malefic etc and their different levels took up their own keybind space.

Even now there are abilities that serve no purpose being their own separate actions. Impact, for example, shouldn't have to be a separate spell on the hotbar, just bundle it into Jolt II.

Just because it can fit on your bars doesn't mean it isn't bloat. Having an ability/skill for the sake of it, is bloat.

Impact being bundled into Jolt II doesn't really work. There are times where you don't want to cast Impact over Jolt II, mostly whenever your proc timer is really close to ending since having your cast cut off hurts your DPS. Having the ability to avoid that removed would do nothing but irritate me greatly. Now if they were to fix that then yes I'd be on board with it being one button, but so long as the proc fading cuts the spell off mid cast Impact can stay off on its own button. Not that Red Mage really has an overwhelming demand of buttons. Though my other main being PLD I might be a bit biased... PLD could use help.

[Shurrikhan]

Impact being bundled into Jolt II doesn't really work. There are times where you don't want to cast Impact over Jolt II, mostly whenever your proc timer is really close to ending since having your cast cut off hurts your DPS. Having the ability to avoid that removed would do nothing but irritate me greatly. Now if they were to fix that then yes I'd be on board with it being one button, but so long as the proc fading cuts the spell off mid cast Impact can stay off on its own button. Not that Red Mage really has an overwhelming demand of buttons. Though my other main being PLD I might be a bit biased... PLD could use help.

Two easy solutions:
1. You bundle the effect, not the button.
2. You snapshot cast requirements in the same way you snapshot Attack Speed. If it's there when you start the cast, it's there throughout.

[Shurrikhan]

I disagree that ability bloat even exists.

I use gamepad and have plenty plenty of space. We are allowed up to 8 hot bars and I dont even really use half of that.... and have tons of empty spaces. (excluding the 4 hot bars I dont even use.)

If they reduce the number of actions again, I fear they gut the jobs even worse at lower levels, and people complain about low level content and high level content....

Can someone tell me which content they prefer? If low level is "horribly boring" and high level content is "too confusing with ability bloat" what is the magical number. at level 50 we have 26 abilities with role actions, and you dont even use all of them. I dont know anyone who prefers level 50 content really. Surely you dont want to have the game play like it was in A Realm Reborn? I even saw people say stuff like 10 abtilites or so. Thats like level 30..... You guys want the devs to sync the game down to level 30 content?

Technically, it's possible to have significantly more control and depth of gameplay than we have now off just 16 to 24 keys. It's just a matter of how the skills are made. Do they synergize, or not? Do they waste space in any given GCD or in the period between available recasts, or not?

I'd rather we had about as much at level 30 as we had at level 50 or now have at 60, but could actually have that depth in the same number of buttons. The required APM would be higher, but each button being placeable in a comfortable area more than makes up for that.

Though if we could just get snapshotted mod states, rather than the worst of both worlds we have now (where holding W and then hitting Shift -- if one has something bound to Shift-W -- cancels W without even activating Shift-W, rather than allowing one to continue walking forward while using Shift keys for other areas), we'd have mod states for WASDQE freed up, which would already be a huge boon for M&KB players. (Yes, yes, MMO mice exist. But, so do fractured right thumbs.)