Combo Action Button

[Shurrikhan]

Explain to me how having two extra spaces on my hotbar does me any good when there's nothing to put into those spaces. This all sounds like massive paranoia over a problem that doesn't even exist right now because we don't even have new skills. This may all sound good in theory, but just as much as you say it's useless to keep them as separate buttons, so too, is it pretty damn useless to condense them into one right now.

It's bad design to have excessive white space in a graphic and nothing to put it in.

Furthermore, excessive buttons are only, only bad design on a web page when they don't DO anything or GO anywhere. When they serve no purpose. The same can be said for all your over myriad examples. Wait...did you just use a switchboard? They're suppose to be like that.

Explain to me why spending two buttons on one available action does you any good? It's not paranoia. It's just common sense. The same kind as might say that "mate... adding 0 still gives you the same number... no matter how many times you do it."

Fire IV holds no purpose whenever Blizzard IV does. Blizzard IV holds no purpose whenever Fire IV does.

And no, a switchboard still does not apply a single toggle to separate switches. They simply switch the same switch from upward... to downward, "on"... to "off".

[Sigma-Astra]

Explain to me why spending two buttons on one available action does you any good?

I asked you for proof first, you can't just spin the same question around back towards me because you either can't answer it or you don't wish to. The burden of proof lies on you first, not me. Explain to me how it will help my gameplay now, currently, if we were to diminish those two buttons.

And no, a switchboard still does not apply a single toggle to separate switches. They simply switch the same switch from upward... to downward, "on"... to "off".

I'm not sure you and I are thinking about the same kind of switchboards here....I'm thinking of a telecommunication switchboard or telephone switchboard.

[Shurrikhan]

I asked you for proof first, you can't just spin the same question around back towards me because you either can't answer it or you don't wish to. The burden of proof lies on you first, not me. Explain to me how it will help my gameplay now, currently, if we were to diminish those two buttons.

You're asking that others not receive a QoL improvement because you do not want it.
You are asking for an intentionally worse design to remain forced upon others.

Yes, at present the two buttons are separate. But the existent trend is towards consolidation of unnecessary buttons and the developers have expressed a desire to continue with such quality and efficiency changes. You could already see this in WAR and SMN. The tech is there. The trend is there. It is ready to go. You are now asking it to stop -- to not go on as scheduled. You are asking for change. The burden lies with you.

There is zero effect on rotation.
There is zero effect on gameplay.
Efficiency is increased.
Quality is increased.
It is more in line with stated goals.

Not everything should have to be outright disfunctional before being fixed. You don't leave your business's window egged. You don't leave the water cooler dripping. Especially when it takes essentially zero time to do so and the issues -- however minuscule -- are already on the "to-do" list.

[Sigma-Astra]

You're asking that others not receive a QoL improvement because you do not want it.
You are asking for an intentionally worse design to remain forced upon others.

Yes, at present the two buttons are separate. But the existent trend is towards consolidation of unnecessary buttons and the developers have expressed a desire to continue with such quality and efficiency changes. You could already see this in WAR and SMN. The tech is there. The trend is there. It is ready to go. You are now asking it to stop -- to not go on as scheduled. You are asking for change. The burden lies with you.

There is zero effect on rotation.
There is zero effect on gameplay.
Efficiency is increased.
Quality is increased.
It is more in line with stated goals.

Not everything should have to be outright disfunctional before being fixed. You don't leave your business's window egged. You don't leave the water cooler dripping. Especially when it takes essentially zero time to do so and the issues -- however minuscule -- are already on the "to-do" list.

It's not because I don't want it, it's because the examples you and everyone else have given are poor, poor enough that I don't see it as a QoL improvement because it literally does nothing to improve my rotation and in fact, would not only screw up my muscle memory of the job, but potentially anyone else that plays the job competitively. You are asking for a simplistic design to be forced onto others that don't want it or simply don't find the need to use it. In both cases, we could say both sides are being selfish in these regards.

The trend isn't to entirely consolidate unnecessary buttons, it's to make them more useful beforehand first, in which consolidation is probably going to be felt and seen as a last resort. The reasoning why BLM is the way it is in PvP is simply because of the environment firsthand, and while PvP can become competitive, there really is no reason for someone to be mapping out a full raiding opener in PvP to begin with as everyone will be on equal footing mostly already. However, the environment for PvE is much more different with a lot more variables regarding when and where you can use your abilities and as the developers have said, there is enough time in PvE where players can make use of their other skills during phase transitions that warrant the rotations to be what they are in some cases.

I never asked for it to completely halt, you took it that way and I said in the past that it could probably work much better towards others job, however, Black Mage was not one of them. The job itself does not have massive button bloat and majority of its skills are used and placed where they need to be and you're already not using at least 3 (possibly 4, Fire 2 has been kind of "eh" lately because of Triplecast and Flare) of them on a daily basis. That's three open spaces on your hotbar already, so there's no rhyme nor reason to consolidate skills even further if we're using an excuse that we need room for more skills. You already have three open slots of your choosing.

Black Mage in SB is probably the most efficient and smoothest it's ever been with the introduction of the job gauges and Foul when you compare it to ARR and HW. And to claim it's dysfunctional simply because the idea of Fire IV and Blizzard IV being their own separate buttons is detestable to some of you? I personally don't think that you've played the class enough then to get a feel or you've mapped your hotbars in such an odd way that Fire IV and Blizzard IV aren't even in remotely comfortable locations for you.

So, why should some people who already love the job as it is, have stuck with the job for years, be forced to indulge into the selfish whims of people who might have barely skimmed it? The burden doesn't lie with the people who've never had a problem with it, it lies on the people who suddenly see what PvP has done and want it simply because they feel or might feel that they could be better at the job if they just had one or two less buttons to worry about.

The job is efficient at what it does already. It's not the job's fault if the player can't cut playing it efficiently.

[Rongway]

It's not because I don't want it, it's because the examples you and everyone else have given are poor, poor enough that I don't see it as a QoL improvement because it literally does nothing to improve my rotation and in fact, would not only screw up my muscle memory of the job, but potentially anyone else that plays the job competitively.

If you absolutely need two buttons to do what one button should be able to do, you're welcome to waste a hotbar slot so you can have two slots that do the same action.

[Sigma-Astra]

If you absolutely need two buttons to do what one button should be able to do, you're welcome to waste two hotbar slots on the same action.

It's not a matter of necessity, it's a matter of "why are we fixing what isn't broken", if you feel having one button will suddenly make you a more efficient and better player, then by all means you can play like that in PvP as much as you want. But, why should anyone be forced to re-learn their job rotation and redo their muscle memory because some people absolutely need one button or they consider the entire job dysfunctional is beyond me.

This wasn't even an issue until they made changes to PvP and people saw what they did. It's funny how that happened.

[Shurrikhan]

It's not because I don't want it, it's because the examples you and everyone else have given are poor, poor enough that I don't see it as a QoL improvement because it literally does nothing to improve my rotation and in fact, would not only screw up my muscle memory of the job, but potentially anyone else that plays the job competitively. You are asking for a simplistic design to be forced onto others that don't want it or simply don't find the need to use it. In both cases, we could say both sides are being selfish in these regards.

Then just bind both? You have literally nothing to lose here.

You already have three open slots of your choosing.

Two expansions in. And there are only three slots left?

There aren't, btw, but you're hardly doing your cause any favors.

It's not the job's fault if the player can't cut playing it efficiently.

No one is complaining that it is difficult. It's not. No one is claiming the bloat reduces their performance. It doesn't. It's literally just two people looking at the same thing. It's an eyesore and a mild physical irritant to one. It's apparently not to the other. This is not an issue of "git gud". It's just riding with one's bike seat backward and thinking, "hey, it would take me all of ten seconds to fix this."

[Sigma-Astra]

Two expansions in. And there are only three slots left?

There aren't, btw, but you're hardly doing your cause any favors.

You don't need Freeze, Break, Drain, or Erase, and Scathe, as well as Fire 2, are mostly situational. Since, yea you can use Scathe as you move, but now we have Triplecast and multiple Flares are more potent than Fire 2.

Wow...look at all of that space and things you don't need because they're mostly useless. Meanwhile, let's nitpick about Fire IV and Blizzard IV not being the same button.

[Rongway]

It's not a matter of necessity, it's a matter of "why are we fixing what isn't broken", if you feel having one button will suddenly make you a more efficient and better player, then by all means you can play like that in PvP as much as you want.

It's literally broken. Ley Lines and Between the Lines have the same result but can only be used in completely disjoint conditions, so they should be the same button. Making them the same button would be objectively better design.

But, why should anyone be forced to re-learn their job rotation and redo their muscle memory because some people absolutely need one button or they consider the entire job dysfunctional is beyond me.

What seems to be beyond you is that such an improvement to the interface wouldn't force you to relearn anything. If you're so offended at fixing what is broken, you can spend two slots to maintain the behaviour of the current broken interface.

[LalaRu]

With examples in the past of games with a rich and enjoyable pvp/pve with just 8 buttons (GW), I think being able to reduce our skills hotbar to something like 16 buttons may be nice. Not easy to do, sure, but a nice thing to have.

IMHO the difference and variations we can get on a single job does not rely on 123,456 different skills to cast, but in the multiple interactions between few of them. Look at BnS, there combos depends not only on what you cast, but also on what the foe replied with, and if the skill landed or not. That surely adds much deep gameplay than have to choose between tons of different skills, the latter ending, as you all know very well, to just the use of only the "right" skillset and anything other may also not exists.