Combo Action Button

[Beckett]

I misunderstood the intention behind this combo button. Weaving is not an issue this way, but I still don't know how it would work as not everyone combos the same. NIN has three finishers; DRK goes either 1-2-3, or 1-4-5, so since the second skill either rotation is different they couldn't take advantage of this button in any way. I am sure each combo using a job can provide at least one con about this combo button.

It just seems wonky, and as I said earlier; there are better and more efficient ways to reduce/prevent button bloat. Some of which are issues that need to be addressed now, and not send everyone with muscle memory into a craze as they relearn how to execute their weaponskills.

Totally agreed. Auto-combos don't work for most jobs, because most jobs have off-shoot combos. In PVP they get around this by giving you multiple auto-combos. For example, Paladin has one auto-combo that does Fast Blade > Riot Blade > Royal Authority, and another that does Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Rage of Halone. These auto-combos can work off each other as well, so if you started out with Fast Blade on the first combo, you could still switch to the second combo to finish up with Savage Blade > Rage of Halone. Add a third auto-combo for Fast Blade > Riot Blade > Goring Blade and you've covered all of PLD's current combos in three buttons, and saved three buttons in the process.

Personally, I don't know if I would like this system. I think I would get used to it, but hitting a different button for each part of my combo is fun, and makes a fight feel more dynamic. I still think auto-combos should be considered as a means to reduce button bloat (especially for the rare job that doesn't have any combo off-shoots), but there are definitely other methods they could implement that are less divisive.

[Reynhart]

I wouldn't expect such complex combo strings to ever be implemented into the game.

DRG already have two 5-step combos, I don't see why other jobs couldn't.

[Fland]

I think the consolidated one button might affect people like myself who tend to mash button to queue skills to minimize latency effect.
So for example I'm in the middle of DRG rotation ....-FAC-SSD-TT-J-VT-...., usually I will mash the TT button after weaving SSD to queue it.
But if TT and VT are one button, then if I accidentally mash that button then the VT will get queued, and it'll become TT-VT-J instead of TT-J-VT and mess up the rotation.

For people with high ping like myself, pressing a button once and waiting for the GCD to pass before pressing another button instead of mashing them will significantly affect my DPS. Which is why I don't raid as NIN because I can't mash buttons the mudras especially during TCJ and have to press 6 times one by one slowly to avoid the bunny >.<

I don't really play PVP, so I'm not sure how it works there for melees.

[Ash_]

To this day I can't comprehend why summoners have an enkindle button for regular egi's, and then another enkindle button for bahamut. Sure the one for bahamut is on a shorter CD, but it's as simple as adding something like 'CD reduced to 7 seconds while Bahamut is summoned' to the existing enkindle.

[Shurrikhan]

A trend I've noticed whenever we start to near a new expansion is hot bar bloat. It's something I've noticed to be a problem with some classes right now as they've allowed all ten Role Actions to be utilized at once. We have a solution already in the game and I'm not entirely sure why it hasn't been extended to regular game play. I am referring to the Combo button we have access to while in PvP. If that was added to regular game play it would make things a lot cleaner for our hot bars. Looking at Dragoon for example, you would reduce 8 buttons to 2. Paladin and a number of other jobs would reduce 6-7 buttons down to 3. No more would we (maybe it's just me) fat finger our Red Mage enchanted combo if those three buttons were neatly sorted into one! Is there any chance we could see this added to regular game play by the time Shadowbringers rolls in? Sometime after? Does anyone else think this would be great? If not, please elaborate why you think otherwise. Thanks for your time reading this!

But, does that really solve anything?

The core issue is that we have more buttons than we have choices in a given moment, but consolidation into combo-keys wouldn't solve that. It would just give us as many buttons as we have choices in and only in the GCD of decision between paths. Beyond those points, until the combo is completed, you only get one choice. Short of one button, then, we'll never see parity between viable decisions and the number of buttons to signal each.

Monk alone has a squared table of abilities available to it over its GCDs, whether broken up as Direct/Indirect/Auxiliary or Back/Flank/Omni:
Bootshine -> True Strike -> Snap Punch
Dragon Kick -> Twin Snakes -> Demolish
Destroyer -> One-Ilm -> Rockbreaker

3x3. 3 choices every GCD. On no GCD is one truly without choice. That's a table that lends itself well to consolidated keys. Dragoon, with its 1 GCD of 3 choices (only one at all viable) into 5 GCDs of 1 choice into 5 GCDs of 1 choice, repeat, does not.

There are only two ways to create one-to-one correspondence between decisions available and the buttons to mark them:
1. Use a geometric progression of choices, such as 3x3 or 4x4, with or without the inclusion of ranged abilities and other GCD utility skills outside of the melee combos (though that will mean locking out access to them whenever the maximum number of real choices exceeds the minimum, such as after Heavy Swing or Gust Blade).

2. Allow formerly "combo" actions to be used separately, rather than solely through "combos".

Edit: To be clear, I think consolidation would, for particular jobs, be quite useful. I just feel it's far from perfect and difficult to improve from once the precedent is set.

[Shurrikhan]

It's called playing a MMO.

If you're running out of space, invest in a MMO mouse which is designed specifically for this. I scarcely even use my keyboard—virtually everything can be done on my mouse. Using modifiers comes with the genre.

Bad design being common doesn't make it any less poor design. One should not need an MMO mouse for something designed for both M&KB and controller.

That being said, I'll agree that we aren't running out of space yet. We've left the zone of ergonomic comfort for most hand sizes short of using a MMO mouse, but we're far from overburdened. But that doesn't excuse bloat. And the current combo system outside of a squared table of abilities is bloat. One decision, and without modular components or variation outside of complete intentional failure, requires multiple keys. One does not choose to Impulse Drive in order to Impulse Drive. They choose it in order to DoT and push up Blood, which are together a bound decision. Those 5 keys together represent 1 choice. And it does not feel much better than being asked to confirm four times over whether one wants to exit a zone.

And if people are feeling a bit taxed for space now, that is something worth mitigating. It needn't take anything fundamental from the game. Much of it can be as simple as just working out how mod key-states are handled, opening up access to mod keys onto movement keys for additional abilities without sacrificing movement when accessing keys elsewhere with the same mod key-state as newly used for those further skills. Voila. Now between 1234QWERASDF I have access to 24 keys off Shift, 36 with the addition of Alt or Ctrl, or 48 with all 3 mods, all without having to extend my reach. But in the current treatment, I cannot mod-bind WS or either QE or AD without losing access to movement when mods of those or any other keys. Just giving a "Maintain Mod Key-state" option would grant us 4n or more additional comfortable keys over n additional mod-states.

[Sylve]

It's called playing a MMO.

If you're running out of space, invest in a MMO mouse which is designed specifically for this. I scarcely even use my keyboard—virtually everything can be done on my mouse. Using modifiers comes with the genre. The last thing I ever want to see is the game being simplified to the point we don't even need modifiers anymore. I actually want to press buttons, not spam the same few endlessly. That one change you cite is precisely what I don't want. Not only does 2221-1112 feel incredibly dull, it forces you to watch your hot bars more closely because you can no longer rely entirely on muscle memory.

Making it an option doesn't work because it won't remain an option. The devs aren't going to spend the resources necessary to implement a combo consolidation system into PvE only to also still prune out or simply not add new abilities. They're just going to tell anyone who dislike their combos on two buttons to "deal with it." So in reality, the only one who benefits is you. Not me. Hence why I want nothing to do with combo consolation.

On a separate note. I have to question your setup. Why would you ever put your main combo on 890E? Even without a dedicated MMO mouse, you should neither need to do that nor want to since three of those keys are in Narnia.

Jeez, I guess that Naga with a 12 button remappable keypad under my thumb might have something to do with that oddity. Surely not.
Also, you are correct. I'm playing an MMO, not a piano.

Now riddle me this. After using Impulse Drive and enabling use of Disembowel, for what reason does Impulse Drive remain on my bars?
I will never consider using Impulse Drive twice in a row. That would be a straight dps loss, not to mention screw with upkeep of BOTD. There is literally zero purpose to Impulse Drive once I've cast it and moved up the chain. All it does is consume a hotkey and button space.

Potential solution for SAM: Instead of removing combo requirements, cause it to set the combo button to the final stage of each and apply the effects gained from using the entire combo in the chain.
Example, hit Meikyo Shisui. use Kasha(Gain Shifu buff) then use Gekko (Gaining Jinpu buff).
Might change the way its used, but that'd be fine, in my opinion. POint is that the skill can be modified/improved.

There is no purpose to skills used in a chain to remain on my bars with later steps active. That is bloat in its truest sense.
Mutually exclusive skills can easily be condensed down without affecting the number of keypresses.
If you like having 4 different binds for a single combo path with no branches (Like DRG), then feel free to keep the individual skills on your bars with separate keybinds. But I'd like an option to layer them into a single key.

1 button pressed multiple times as opposed to 4 buttons pressed once each.

[Rongway]

Now riddle me this. After using Impulse Drive and enabling use of Disembowel, for what reason does Impulse Drive remain on my bars?
I will never consider using Impulse Drive twice in a row. That would be a straight dps loss, not to mention screw with upkeep of BOTD. There is literally zero purpose to Impulse Drive once I've cast it and moved up the chain. All it does is consume a hotkey and button space.

But the point is you can make the wrong decision and use it twice in a row, and indeed some people do--especially when they're still learning a new job.

This is not like conditional or mutually exclusive abilities, which you are literally unable to use under the wrong conditions.

Example: You cannot use Between the Lines unless Ley Lines is active. You cannot use Ley Lines while Between the Lines is usable, because Between the Lines is only usable when Ley Lines is already active. Therefore these two actions should be the same button. This is not like advancing a combo, where it's possible to abort or reset the combo for whatever (usually bad) reason.

[Sylve]

But the point is you can make the wrong decision and use it twice in a row, and indeed some people do--especially when they're still learning a new job.

This is not like conditional or mutually exclusive abilities, which you are literally unable to use under the wrong conditions.

Example: You cannot use Between the Lines unless Ley Lines is active. You cannot use Ley Lines while Between the Lines is usable, because Between the Lines is only usable when Ley Lines is already active. Therefore these two actions should be the same button. This is not like advancing a combo, where it's possible to abort or reset the combo for whatever (usually bad) reason.

So your argument against the idea is … To keep it unchanged because new people make mistakes? There are plenty of mistakes that can be made naturally outside of the basic combo.

[Rongway]

So your argument against the idea is

I'm saying you can't compare combos to conditional or mutually exclusive abilities. They're not in the same boat. Having separate hotbar slots for conditional or mutually exclusive abilities is inarguably a waste, because there's no situation in which you can use the two at the same time. Having separate hotbar slots for weaponskills in a skillchain is fine, as it lets you make the choice to use them out of order, whether that is the wrong choice (in most cases) or the right one (typically MCH, SAM, MNK mechanics).