Combo Action Button

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Casters and healers already have their own way of reducing button bloat, with the various masteries.

For combos, they could very well fuse most of the first and some second steps. For example, DRG could very well go True - Vorpal - Full and True - Vorpal - Chaos, it wouldn't change much, especially since removing the piercing debuff would shift the meta away from DRG + BRD + MCH.

Also, enmity combo for tanks are mostly useless now.

Actually, it would. Not only will it miss align buffs due to pressing less buttons, this makes it impossible for Dragoon to double weave. Simply put, it would be a significant impact on the job. Not to mention, this turns it into an off-shot of Ninja. The whole point of Dragoon is a simplistic but long combo sequence. Combining half its combo together defeats that purpose.

As for the topic itself. No.

The combo consolidation reduces every job effected by it to essentially spamming a single button more often than not. While it may seem subtle, I much prefer having to press different buttons for each combo. Furthermore, it's actually more likely to fat finger your abilities as you wouldn't be able to rely on muscle memory. All in all, not only does Dragoon not have a button bloat issue at the moment. We simply don't need a bunch of new abilities anyway. I would much prefer they focus on the jobs dying off than try to shoehorn in new abilities to ones who don't need them just to say "look at the new shiny".

[Reynhart]

Actually, it would. Not only will it miss align buffs due to pressing less buttons, this makes it impossible for Dragoon to double weave.

No, it wouldn't change anything, you'd still use two 5-step combos. Pressing True - Vorpal instead of Impulse - Disenbowel don't change anything about how many buttons you will use.

Then remove them? This doesn’t have much to do with skill consolidation.

No, but it would reduce button bloat. And could put more emphasis on the tank stance or proper usage of Shirk.

[HyoMinPark]

No, but it would reduce button bloat. And could put more emphasis on the tank stance or proper usage of Shirk.

So would removing skills that are useless?

For the enmity combos, they could literally just put enmity generation on the more frequently used combos. It doesn’t require skill consolidation at all, really.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

No, it wouldn't change anything, you'd still use two 5-step combos. Pressing True - Vorpal instead of Impulse - Disenbowel don't change anything about how many buttons you will use.

Apologies. I assumed you also wanted to delete Heavy Thrust because virtually every combo consolidation requests comes with that caveat, which would impact DRG in the manner I outlined. That being said, DRG simply doesn't have button bloat. I'd rather they not touch the combos as I like pressing more buttons than the same ones multiple times.

[Sylve]

Actually, it would. Not only will it miss align buffs due to pressing less buttons, this makes it impossible for Dragoon to double weave. Simply put, it would be a significant impact on the job. Not to mention, this turns it into an off-shot of Ninja. The whole point of Dragoon is a simplistic but long combo sequence. Combining half its combo together defeats that purpose.

As for the topic itself. No.

The combo consolidation reduces every job effected by it to essentially spamming a single button more often than not. While it may seem subtle, I much prefer having to press different buttons for each combo. Furthermore, it's actually more likely to fat finger your abilities as you wouldn't be able to rely on muscle memory. All in all, not only does Dragoon not have a button bloat issue at the moment. We simply don't need a bunch of new abilities anyway. I would much prefer they focus on the jobs dying off than try to shoehorn in new abilities to ones who don't need them just to say "look at the new shiny".

So give it as an option. When I have to use both Shift and Alt as modifiers because I ran out of buttons on my keyboard/mouse, There are too many skills taking up too many slots.


Dragoon would stand to benefit a whole lot, at least for me. Currently playing my DRG is:
8 9 0 E
1 2 3 Q

This doesn't include the various buffs and single use skills like BotD, Heavy Thrust and the various jumps.
But being able to condense those 8 keybinds into 2 would be a bloody godsend.
The only mechanical change for players is that Impulse Drive becomes Disembowel when used. At the top with Wheeling Thrust + Fang and Claw, it need only change the other combo path button to the appropriate skill. 8 Skills, 2 keybinds.
But I see no reason that would stop you from using oGCDs like Jumps etc between weaponskills if it essentially just replaced Impulse Drive with Disembowel etc. Same with Doomspike and Sonic Thrust, I will NEVER use Sonic without first using Doomspike, so let me press ` ` instead of ` S+`
The only change would be that I pressed 22221 instead of 8 9 0 E Q, which frees up keybinds for other skills.

Does the pvp Combo button reset the chain if you don't press it 4 times in sequence? If it does, that's horrible and can piss right off. That's not what I'd like to see. I just want to see the next step in the chain replace the preceding skill for the duration we currently have for the Combo Action to be lit up since the preceeding skill is NEVER used while the followup skill is lit up. I'd still need 8 button presses, just not 8 hotkeys.


For something like Paladin, where there are branches,
Example, If I used Fast Blade and then Riot Strike intending to use Royal Authority, but needed to refresh Goring Blade instead, id set 3 combo paths onto 1, 2 and 3. 1 Would be a full Fast -> Halone combo, 2 would be Fast -> Goring and 3 would be Fast -> Royal Authority.
Then, in the example above, I would hit 3 3 2, since the combo path leading to Goring is updated to Goring Blade once Riot Strike is used from Combo path 3. I would have the exact same options as I do presently to take a different branch at the end of the path, just with fewer keybinds.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

So give it as an option. When I have to use both Shift and Alt as modifiers because I ran out of buttons on my keyboard/mouse, There are too many skills taking up too many slots.


Dragoon would stand to benefit a whole lot, at least for me. Currently playing my DRG is:
8 9 0 E
1 2 3 Q

This doesn't include the various buffs and single use skills like BotD, Heavy Thrust and the various jumps.
But being able to condense those 8 keybinds into 2 would be a bloody godsend.
The only mechanical change for players is that Impulse Drive becomes Disembowel when used. At the top with Wheeling Thrust + Fang and Claw, it need only change the other combo path button to the appropriate skill. 8 Skills, 2 keybinds.
But I see no reason that would stop you from using oGCDs like Jumps etc between weaponskills if it essentially just replaced Impulse Drive with Disembowel etc. Same with Doomspike and Sonic Thrust, I will NEVER use Sonic without first using Doomspike, so let me press ` ` instead of ` S+`
The only change would be that I pressed 22221 instead of 8 9 0 E Q, which frees up keybinds for other skills.

Does the pvp Combo button reset the chain if you don't press it 4 times in sequence? If it does, that's horrible and can piss right off. That's not what I'd like to see. I just want to see the next step in the chain replace the preceding skill for the duration we currently have for the Combo Action to be lit up since the preceeding skill is NEVER used while the followup skill is lit up. I'd still need 8 button presses, just not 8 hotkeys.


For something like Paladin, where there are branches,
Example, If I used Fast Blade and then Riot Strike intending to use Royal Authority, but needed to refresh Goring Blade instead, id set 3 combo paths onto 1, 2 and 3. 1 Would be a full Fast -> Halone combo, 2 would be Fast -> Goring and 3 would be Fast -> Royal Authority.
Then, in the example above, I would hit 3 3 2, since the combo path leading to Goring is updated to Goring Blade once Riot Strike is used from Combo path 3. I would have the exact same options as I do presently to take a different branch at the end of the path, just with fewer keybinds.

It's called playing a MMO.

If you're running out of space, invest in a MMO mouse which is designed specifically for this. I scarcely even use my keyboard—virtually everything can be done on my mouse. Using modifiers comes with the genre. The last thing I ever want to see is the game being simplified to the point we don't even need modifiers anymore. I actually want to press buttons, not spam the same few endlessly. That one change you cite is precisely what I don't want. Not only does 2221-1112 feel incredibly dull, it forces you to watch your hot bars more closely because you can no longer rely entirely on muscle memory.

Making it an option doesn't work because it won't remain an option. The devs aren't going to spend the resources necessary to implement a combo consolidation system into PvE only to also still prune out or simply not add new abilities. They're just going to tell anyone who dislike their combos on two buttons to "deal with it." So in reality, the only one who benefits is you. Not me. Hence why I want nothing to do with combo consolation.

On a separate note. I have to question your setup. Why would you ever put your main combo on 890E? Even without a dedicated MMO mouse, you should neither need to do that nor want to since three of those keys are in Narnia.

Being a healer, your dps spells arent your top priority, and they don't combo so that dont need to worry about GCD clipping or anything like that. You'll also only be dpsing when you're not to stressed, so you wouldnt typically be queuing up DPS spells anyway, and even if you were, you'd probably waste as much time changing targets anyway.

Uh... WHM would like to have a word with you about the near 500-600 DPS increase AST received almost exclusively because they made clipping your GCD a non-issue. Furthermore, there is zero scenarios where you aren't DPSing as a healer in this game. Even in Savage and Ultimate, you'll spend a significant amount of time dealing damage. Or have the opportunity to do so. The only excuse not to is when you're progging the fights.

[Shurrikhan]

It's called playing a MMO.

If you're running out of space, invest in a MMO mouse which is designed specifically for this. I scarcely even use my keyboard—virtually everything can be done on my mouse. Using modifiers comes with the genre.

Bad design being common doesn't make it any less poor design. One should not need an MMO mouse for something designed for both M&KB and controller.

That being said, I'll agree that we aren't running out of space yet. We've left the zone of ergonomic comfort for most hand sizes short of using a MMO mouse, but we're far from overburdened. But that doesn't excuse bloat. And the current combo system outside of a squared table of abilities is bloat. One decision, and without modular components or variation outside of complete intentional failure, requires multiple keys. One does not choose to Impulse Drive in order to Impulse Drive. They choose it in order to DoT and push up Blood, which are together a bound decision. Those 5 keys together represent 1 choice. And it does not feel much better than being asked to confirm four times over whether one wants to exit a zone.

And if people are feeling a bit taxed for space now, that is something worth mitigating. It needn't take anything fundamental from the game. Much of it can be as simple as just working out how mod key-states are handled, opening up access to mod keys onto movement keys for additional abilities without sacrificing movement when accessing keys elsewhere with the same mod key-state as newly used for those further skills. Voila. Now between 1234QWERASDF I have access to 24 keys off Shift, 36 with the addition of Alt or Ctrl, or 48 with all 3 mods, all without having to extend my reach. But in the current treatment, I cannot mod-bind WS or either QE or AD without losing access to movement when mods of those or any other keys. Just giving a "Maintain Mod Key-state" option would grant us 4n or more additional comfortable keys over n additional mod-states.

[Sylve]

It's called playing a MMO.

If you're running out of space, invest in a MMO mouse which is designed specifically for this. I scarcely even use my keyboard—virtually everything can be done on my mouse. Using modifiers comes with the genre. The last thing I ever want to see is the game being simplified to the point we don't even need modifiers anymore. I actually want to press buttons, not spam the same few endlessly. That one change you cite is precisely what I don't want. Not only does 2221-1112 feel incredibly dull, it forces you to watch your hot bars more closely because you can no longer rely entirely on muscle memory.

Making it an option doesn't work because it won't remain an option. The devs aren't going to spend the resources necessary to implement a combo consolidation system into PvE only to also still prune out or simply not add new abilities. They're just going to tell anyone who dislike their combos on two buttons to "deal with it." So in reality, the only one who benefits is you. Not me. Hence why I want nothing to do with combo consolation.

On a separate note. I have to question your setup. Why would you ever put your main combo on 890E? Even without a dedicated MMO mouse, you should neither need to do that nor want to since three of those keys are in Narnia.

Jeez, I guess that Naga with a 12 button remappable keypad under my thumb might have something to do with that oddity. Surely not.
Also, you are correct. I'm playing an MMO, not a piano.

Now riddle me this. After using Impulse Drive and enabling use of Disembowel, for what reason does Impulse Drive remain on my bars?
I will never consider using Impulse Drive twice in a row. That would be a straight dps loss, not to mention screw with upkeep of BOTD. There is literally zero purpose to Impulse Drive once I've cast it and moved up the chain. All it does is consume a hotkey and button space.

Potential solution for SAM: Instead of removing combo requirements, cause it to set the combo button to the final stage of each and apply the effects gained from using the entire combo in the chain.
Example, hit Meikyo Shisui. use Kasha(Gain Shifu buff) then use Gekko (Gaining Jinpu buff).
Might change the way its used, but that'd be fine, in my opinion. POint is that the skill can be modified/improved.

There is no purpose to skills used in a chain to remain on my bars with later steps active. That is bloat in its truest sense.
Mutually exclusive skills can easily be condensed down without affecting the number of keypresses.
If you like having 4 different binds for a single combo path with no branches (Like DRG), then feel free to keep the individual skills on your bars with separate keybinds. But I'd like an option to layer them into a single key.

1 button pressed multiple times as opposed to 4 buttons pressed once each.

[Rongway]

Now riddle me this. After using Impulse Drive and enabling use of Disembowel, for what reason does Impulse Drive remain on my bars?
I will never consider using Impulse Drive twice in a row. That would be a straight dps loss, not to mention screw with upkeep of BOTD. There is literally zero purpose to Impulse Drive once I've cast it and moved up the chain. All it does is consume a hotkey and button space.

But the point is you can make the wrong decision and use it twice in a row, and indeed some people do--especially when they're still learning a new job.

This is not like conditional or mutually exclusive abilities, which you are literally unable to use under the wrong conditions.

Example: You cannot use Between the Lines unless Ley Lines is active. You cannot use Ley Lines while Between the Lines is usable, because Between the Lines is only usable when Ley Lines is already active. Therefore these two actions should be the same button. This is not like advancing a combo, where it's possible to abort or reset the combo for whatever (usually bad) reason.

[Sylve]

But the point is you can make the wrong decision and use it twice in a row, and indeed some people do--especially when they're still learning a new job.

This is not like conditional or mutually exclusive abilities, which you are literally unable to use under the wrong conditions.

Example: You cannot use Between the Lines unless Ley Lines is active. You cannot use Ley Lines while Between the Lines is usable, because Between the Lines is only usable when Ley Lines is already active. Therefore these two actions should be the same button. This is not like advancing a combo, where it's possible to abort or reset the combo for whatever (usually bad) reason.

So your argument against the idea is … To keep it unchanged because new people make mistakes? There are plenty of mistakes that can be made naturally outside of the basic combo.