Thread: [Spoilers] The Patch 4.5 Lore Discussion Thread!

I'm using some older quotes in the thread to organize my thoughts since my browser was being weird and I had somehow thought that page 3 was the last one. But I think some of the points are pretty pertinent anyway!

Originally Posted by Xie_Belvoule

It's obvious to me now what Varis' plan was, to create a world where everyone had the echo.

This doesn't sound like Varis's plan to me at all. He seems to be of a more...secular sort. In the previous patch he claimed to want to restore mankind to its rightful place in history, which leans more towards freeing them from outside influence like gods and ascians than some sort of echo based wonderland. If anything, it sounds more like Elidibus's. He claimed a long time ago (all the way back in the A Realm Reborn Patches) that if the Scions mastered the Echo they would be on the same side as him, whatever that means. That's part of why I thought that Aulus Mas Asina (sorry if I messed up the name) was Elidibus in disguise, since coming up with a way to give more people the Echo would be extremely useful to his goals. I was wrong about him being Elidibus admittedly, but the point still stands. Our White Robed buddy seems to have different goals and methods than the other Ascians, sometimes even seeming to work against their plans.

As to the whole 'create a world with no races' and such, I wouldn't be totally shocked if he was talking more generally about all bowing to Garlemald. Remember that Varis lead the Optimates faction over the Populares. He was (and probably still is to some extent) convinced of Garlean supremacy. That might have changed since he learned the truth about his country's origins, but I personally think he'll try to 'make Garlemald real' rather than abandon it entirely. He's talking seemingly to the Alliance in that scene, and likely requesting their surrender before the war really begins.

Originally Posted by Xie_Belvoule

Zodiark appears- check

I honestly got no real hint that it was necessarily Zodiark. If it was I feel like there would have been a bigger hint, like a gigantic dark crystal or something like that. Sure the voice was saying some sort of evil sounding stuff, but that could mean it was any ascian, or something else entirely. Not to mention that it tends to be shorthand in games and movies that 'Dark Gods' have deep, booming voices. This voice didn't really sound like that. I'm still skeptical that Zodiark will show up awake, because that kind of means that the Ascians have won, and mortal life is doomed.

Originally Posted by Xie_Belvoule

Zodiark will likely reveal that mama crystal isnt all she seems- check

This is admittedly a response to this idea in general. The 'Hydelyn is actually evil' seems to be a popular theory, but there's almost no evidence for it. The biggest point against it in my opinion comes from the Warriors of Darkness plotline. Arbert and his companions assumed that Hydeyn was evil and tricking them. They blamed her for the flood of light, and were willing to work with Elidibus to try and save their star by serving Zodiark instead. However, in the end, they were wrong. What saved their shard (although it seems like that might not be working out so hot) wasn't using the power of darkness or violence. Instead, it was asking Hydelyn for help. That would have been the perfect time to demonstrate her darker side, but instead she sacrificed both her corporeal vessel and more of her (extremely low) power to do her best to save the shard. That seems much more like the actions of a benevolent mother goddess than some masterminding tyrant. Sure, she kicked out Zodiark in the past, but much like classical mythology he had the world in complete primordial chaos, with apparently no mortal life.

Originally Posted by Theodric

I wonder how Gaius is going to play into all of this? That he survived the events of ARR is mysterious enough, though he also now apparently has the power to track down and slay Ascians. That in itself implies that someone or something is pulling his strings, though despite his noble intentions it may backfire since simply defeating all the Ascians risks bringing about disaster.

Hm...other than Gaius having the masks, there's really no evidence he's actually fully killing Ascians yet. That he can is taken as a given by lots of people, but I'm not totally sold on it. He definitely wants to, but an inability to permanently kill them is a perfect chance for him to try and get help from the Scions. Either way he's definitely trying, and seems to be being set up as something of a 'good' foil for Varis.

Originally Posted by RicaRuin

Sorry to rain on your parade, but the Resonant was Zenos' personal project and most likely not supported by any other, seeing how Aulus goes on about Zenos being the only one believing in his research.

Varis clearly knew about the resonance because Alus presented it to the imperial court. Varis probably considered it for a time but he eventually rejected it as none-viable. Instead opting to listen to elidibus and his plan to fuse the shards with the source leading to the same result of bridging the gap and creating a world where everyone is of "one mind" as Elidibus put it.

Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

Where did you see Zodiark in the trailer? The last time we saw him was in an Echo vision at the end of 2.0.

As for seeing Zodiark, I assume the scene with the WoL on the strange platform in the aether sea is going to pan around to revel a giant dark crystal.

So, there's a few questions that can be raised around the Varis / Alliance leaders in a Garlean tent scene. The seats bear the Garlean flag embossed in the backs and ivory standards by the entrance.



Is it the prelude to the battle? Invitation extended? These are my terms of your surrender, reject them and we will crush you sort of thing?
Have the alliance faught the Empire to a standstill?


I offer no side here, but these are the things I thought about during that sequence.


Edit: also, assuming they haven't done a VA change on Varis (and he does speak during 3.0 and 4.4, the same guy, at least in Eglish), the voice giving the

My goal is this: to return the world to the way it once was, the way it was always meant to be.
In doing so, mankind will be made whole once more.
No longer shall we suffer from the dissension born of our differences.

speach is close, but not as gravelly as he is in 3.0 and 4.4?

Particularly when compared to 4.4 - "You fiends are overly fond of your own voices" - there almost an entire quarry in the delivery of that line. What's the reading from the other languages? Varis or not Varis?

Further Musing
Heh. The floor glyph has 14 circles along the outside and one is more elaborate than the rest. "Solus" is definitely referring to travel to another shard, but it sounds more like he plans on going. However, if he is the anchor and something is able to call our souls, maybe there's a bridge going on? Idk, something's up. Back to thinking.

Oh i know what that glyph is...



IT'S A STATION OF AWAKENING Y'ALL. We about to become keyblade wielders xD

Seriously tho the thing in this trailer that kinda has me weirded out is the possibility we are making some sort of alliance with Solus? Could always be misdirection (and god are the trailer people good with this) but still. Why would we ally with SOLUS of all Ascians. Even though i'm 100% in the "Elidibus is a snake" boat he seemed like a much more likely alliance to happen.

Or maybe we kill the emissary and screw everything so bad Solus HAS to work with us for at least 5 minutes before back-stabbing us as per Ascian MO.

In French, the voice is all again from Zenos as it was the case with the mysterious voice from 4.4 and Shadowbringers trailer. (From what I read for the other among the threads, could it be possible it's different for each language ?)
There is Varis too, Alisaie, and in the last second of the trailer, where the WoL is on the pentacle, the voice is from someone else (Solus ? don't remember his voice, Zodiark ?)
Not too much spoilers, otherwise, it's good.