Thread: [Spoilers] The Patch 4.5 Lore Discussion Thread!

I'm in agreement that I can definitely see Varis aiding the Scions and forging a sort of temporary alliance to defeat the Ascians. He claimed he had a desire to 'bring the reins of history back to humanity' or something like that after all. Between that and his outright disgust towards Solus he's implied to very much not be a fan of them and their manipulations. However...I don't honestly see him becoming a 'good guy'. He's still the leader of a genocidal evil empire, and he was seemingly with (possibly leading) the Optimate faction that sees the Garlean Empire as superior. He fought against his uncle, who wanted to cool the imperialistic ambitions and aim for friendlier foreign policy. Him being against the Ascians and against Eorzea are not mutually exclusive concepts. I would not be shocked if after dealing with the Ascian question he might then turn right back to the conquering. With characters like Fordola and seemingly Gaius heading towards opposing Garlemald and becoming better people, it would make sense if he took a very different stand on Garlemald. One guess is that he could end up something like Vayne from FFXII, who had noble aims but was still a villain in the end.

That being said, he's still something of a wild card. I don't know when or if he'll die, nor do I know exactly where he'll land in the grand scheme of things. He's definitely important, they wouldn't have given him the big reveal scene of the last patch or a prominent place in the 4.5 trailer if he wasn't. But other than that I can't be totally sure. I do have to admit they've piqued my interest in a character I had previously written off as boring though.

Originally Posted by LineageRazor

That's not quite right - he wanted someone STRONG to rule, and just happened to consider himself to be possessed of that strength. He gave the definite impression that while he considered himself qualified to lead, he would accept someone stronger in that position, as well.

He also very definitely equated atheism with strength. He believed that the only reason to worship a god is because one was unconfident in one's own strength. In his mind, a strong leader has no need for gods - and even if those he leads are not strong, as long as they have a strong leader to rely on they, too, will not feel the need to pray gods for strength.

It probably rocked his philosophy badly that he was bested by an individual who DOES worship gods (at least if our "chosen deity" at character creation has any meaning, something which seems to fade into obscurity more and more as time passes). Why would someone so obviously strong feel the need to place faith in the Twelve? What purpose could such worship possibly have? Gaius believes that gods are nothing more than crutches for the powerless - but could there be more to them than that?

I'm very sure Gaius came to the conclusion that there is a lot more to the gods (at least some of them) then the Garleans think there is. Probably even more then most people who are religious think there are.

It's only a few scenes after Gaius wonders about what makes the Warrior of Light strong, then he finds out that even Lahabrea, as powerful as he is, worships a god of his own. And that Lahabrea wants to bring about the return of that god for the express purpose of killing the goddess we worship/work for. The Lahabrea broke the world somehow and claimed to have weakened our goddess. And then Gaius watches us fight and beat both the thing Lahabrea used the break the world and Lahabrea himself. So even if we are relying on a goddess for strength somehow, it's clearly working out for us.

In fact, the last thing Giaus specifically tells us is not the our strength is based on something false. Instead it's about how it's people under a weak ruler who have to rely on a "higher power" for strength and how and why that doesn't work. And then he says we are someone who is strong enough to rule. The implication (probably) being, the people who are under us (the Eorzean Alliance) have a strong leader and so they aren't looking to a higher power for strength.

Given what we now know about the Garlean Empire, I could see the commentary about people under a weak ruler relying on a "higher power" applying to it. The Garlean people, even Varis, seem to believe in the "higher power" of Garlean Ideals. True, it's not a god in the traditional sense, but it does seem to be something bigger then them. And we've seen how finding out who those ideals came from has affected Varis. He wants to make those ideals "true" which implies they were not true or a fake this entire time. Which is exactly what the Garleans think about other religions and gods... going by Gaius' reasoning, the Garlean Empire could be considered to be under a "weak ruler" and Solus all but admits he was doing that on purpose.

Originally Posted by CaesarCV

I'm in agreement that I can definitely see Varis aiding the Scions and forging a sort of temporary alliance to defeat the Ascians. He claimed he had a desire to 'bring the reins of history back to humanity' or something like that after all. Between that and his outright disgust towards Solus he's implied to very much not be a fan of them and their manipulations. However...I don't honestly see him becoming a 'good guy'. He's still the leader of a genocidal evil empire, and he was seemingly with (possibly leading) the Optimate faction that sees the Garlean Empire as superior. He fought against his uncle, who wanted to cool the imperialistic ambitions and aim for friendlier foreign policy. Him being against the Ascians and against Eorzea are not mutually exclusive concepts. I would not be shocked if after dealing with the Ascian question he might then turn right back to the conquering. With characters like Fordola and seemingly Gaius heading towards opposing Garlemald and becoming better people, it would make sense if he took a very different stand on Garlemald. One guess is that he could end up something like Vayne from FFXII, who had noble aims but was still a villain in the end.

That being said, he's still something of a wild card. I don't know when or if he'll die, nor do I know exactly where he'll land in the grand scheme of things. He's definitely important, they wouldn't have given him the big reveal scene of the last patch or a prominent place in the 4.5 trailer if he wasn't. But other than that I can't be totally sure. I do have to admit they've piqued my interest in a character I had previously written off as boring though.

I'm also wondering if the ascians might tire of Varis and try to just off him and have Elidibus, in Zenos' body, take the throne outright. But the 4.4 scene with him and Solus has me thinking maybe the writers have more plans for him than I thought in earlier patches.