Consolidated Combos would solve the issue of button bloat going into Shadowbringers

[Acelyn]

Imo that would just make the game boring, where's the fun in tapping the same button over and over? maybe because i'm on pc with a controller the game feels more action-y to me. Honestly not all the jobs need new attacks some are fine as is, they should start bringing new ones out that they can tweak into oblivion...full jobs, not blue mage fake jobs.

[Raldo]

I'm not sure how pushing 1-2-3 is any more fun or engaging than 1-1-1. It's not like this suggestion eliminates oGCDs or other skills that aren't in a combo. Generally speaking, this idea might reduce your button count from ~30 to ~26. You still got lots to press, and the expansion is surely bringing more.

I can get on board with some of the arguments against this idea, but "this reduces the fun" I just don't buy.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Dragoon does have slight button bloat. Why do we need two separate combo openers: True Thrust and Impulse Drive? DRK, WAR, PLD, NIN, SAM all have 1 combo opener GCD that branches. Further, why does Heavy Thrust exist? SAM get their damage buff from their 2nd hit, as does WAR. Vorpal Thrust is just pure damge with no buff or debuff, why not give it HT's buff and also make True Thrust open either combo. Bam now you have 2 free slots.

As an offtopic aside, I don't think DRG will get a 4th Jump unless it's a conditional oGCD or a straight upgrade. Moreover, SE addressed the issue of jump animation lock associated with jumps by giving us Mirage Dive. Mirage Dive, for all intents and purposes is a 4th Jump in that it's a ranged oGCD, but it doesn't cause personal animation lock because there's no movement (the dragon spirit does the jump). Giving us a traditional jump means more animation lock. If they made it like SSD/DFD to reduce animation lock, then DRG will have 4 gap closers, while other jumps only have 1. It would be a bit ridiculous.

Because DRG double weaves. Heavy Thrust lets you fit in all your buffs before Chaos Thrust, which is your strongest GCD. Doing what you suggests makes it impossible to fit Battle Litany, Blood for Blood, Dragon Sight and a potion before Chaos Thrust. Therefore, you'd have to delay something, which is ultimately a damage loss. Adding to this, putting it on Vorpal Thrust means we now have to start with our weaker combo first, which throws off raid buff timings. And before you suggestion Disembowel. That would make us either drop a combo or override Chaos' DoT. All these leads to more damage loss, especially in fights with multiple targets like M/F.

SAM doesn't have these problems because the bulk of their damage comes from Shinten and Midare. They can also afford to delay a double weave and lose nothing doing so. DRG can't.

[Grimoire-M]

Because DRG double weaves. Heavy Thrust lets you fit in all your buffs before Chaos Thrust, which is your strongest GCD. Doing what you suggests makes it impossible to fit Battle Litany, Blood for Blood, Dragon Sight and a potion before Chaos Thrust. Therefore, you'd have to delay something, which is ultimately a damage loss. Adding to this, putting it on Vorpal Thrust means we now have to start with our weaker combo first, which throws off raid buff timings. And before you suggestion Disembowel. That would make us either drop a combo or override Chaos' DoT. All these leads to more damage loss, especially in fights with multiple targets like M/F.

SAM doesn't have these problems because the bulk of their damage comes from Shinten and Midare. They can also afford to delay a double weave and lose nothing doing so. DRG can't.

Pop the potion pre-pull at 2s then. It's not like that moment you're running up to the boss can't be put to use, and it loses absolutely nothing that way. If you're using Elusive to get in for some reason, you'll have to give that up, but it's worth it.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Pop the potion pre-pull at 2s then. It's not like that moment you're running up to the boss can't be put to use, and it loses absolutely nothing that way. If you're using Elusive to get in for some reason, you'll have to give that up, but it's worth it.

Uh... no. DRG uses their potion three GCDs into their rotation. Using it at two seconds pre-pull means we lose four GCDs under a potion, one of which includes the second Chaos Thrust. None of this even accounts for Elusive, which can delay your GCD even further, thus losing more damage under your pot window. If anything, Dragon Sight would be moved around. Regardless, there's a reason none of the melee DPS or tanks use their potions pre-pull. In fact, I think only BRD and healers use pots pre-pull

No, it's not worth it just because you dislike pressing an extra button. You don't even play DRG. Stop insisting it needs changes, especially when they impact its optimization.

[Grimoire-M]

Uh... no. DRG uses their potion three GCDs into their rotation. Using it at two seconds pre-pull means we lose four GCDs under a potion, one of which includes the second Chaos Thrust. None of this even accounts for Elusive, which can delay your GCD even further, thus losing more damage under your pot window. If anything, Dragon Sight would be moved around. Regardless, there's a reason none of the melee DPS or tanks use their potions pre-pull. In fact, I think only BRD and healers use pots pre-pull

No, it's not worth it just because you dislike pressing an extra button. You don't even play DRG. Stop insisting it needs changes, especially when they impact its optimization.

A potion won't give as much as any of the cooldowns you'd have to shuffle instead for it, including Dragon Sight, which is worth more in the opener. Regardless of where it moves it'll miss the second Chaos Thrust in that scenario, and buffing the first one under all raid buffs is better than the second 30s later when they're all gone. That's the better adaptation if that happened.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

A potion won't give as much as any of the cooldowns you'd have to shuffle instead for it, including Dragon Sight, which is worth more in the opener. Regardless of where it moves it'll miss the second Chaos Thrust in that scenario, and buffing the first one under all raid buffs is better than the second 30s later when they're all gone. That's the better adaptation if that happened.

... it already misses the second Chaos Thrust. Seriously. Please stop talking about what DRG needs or how it's supposed change is"worth it" when you have zero idea how the job's buff alignments even work. Giving up 4-5 GCDs under a pot window is a significant damage loss. That simply will not happen, and is precisely why DRG has an extra button. Unless they add another GCD or fundamentally change how our current combo works. Heavy Thrust will stay to make double weaving easier.

[Jonnycbad]

Because DRG double weaves. Heavy Thrust lets you fit in all your buffs before Chaos Thrust, which is your strongest GCD. Doing what you suggests makes it impossible to fit Battle Litany, Blood for Blood, Dragon Sight and a potion before Chaos Thrust.

Players invented "double weaving" and "optimal rotations" and reliance on stat potions, it doesn't affect how the developers designed Dragoon. So the notion that you wouldn't be able to have all your buffs fit before Chaos Thrust is irrelevant.

[Kaiserdrache]

What I hope with Shadowbringers, should happen, due to Technique Points gettign removing and all classes needing to be reworked and rebalanced due to this change is:

1: Outdated and useless Skills should get removed from the Game and replaced with new and better designed skills that are useful everywhere in the, regardless if you play some instanced content like a Raid or Primae Battle, or of you just explore normally the maps, regardless if you play PvE or PvP content in general

2. Job Skills should get completely reworked and individualized for all Classes, so that they are not shared anymore between jobs of the same role. This wil lstrenthen the uniqueness of each class

3. Traits need to get completely reworked to be more than just only a few lame Stat Boosts and a few mechanic unlocks of some skills for some additional effects. Traits need to be alot of different individual options with that players can change the way how you play your clas,s and what effects their skilsl have, like similar in GW2, where traits are chooseable OPTIONS, thus help in individualizing your character, instead of this power gaming that exists in FF14 that allows people to learn and use everythign always - no miracle then that people call it then a "button bloat", when you have like 32 skills or so to handle and more
reduce this better to just only maximum 16 skilsl in your skill bar of your class, with like a real big pool of options of skills to use and change those 16 skill slots out with to give this game more character individualization and build diversity.
Its better to have only 16 skills with you, able to choose out of a pool of like 160 skills for your class, those that you want to use.
Than to have only 32 skilsl out of a pool of 32 skills and everybody is the exact same like you, there being absolute zero individuality in this game aside of fashion like what we have here in FF14
Having to swap between several skill blocks, just distracts only,especially because every, just everythign shares the same slots, be it skills, items, commands, mount/mount orders ect. because you have to constantly swap your skill blocks out, just to be able to use the skill you want to use.

4. What FF14 needs is a ring menu to perform many things from it simply, without needing to put everything into the "skill bar"
A skill bar is what its named - a skill bar, this should mean that also only skills should be put into it, nothing else, everything else should be useable via a ring menu openable via a single button press, that needs to be quick and easy navigatable, half transparent, so that it doesnt block the players sight on whats important to see, while its up
Reducing the number of skilsl classes can actually have with them, reduces not just only skill clutter/bloating, but alos makes it for SE alot easier to balance classes for PvP.
This would massively reduce the slot bloat, if stuff like items, commands, mount and so on could be just used via ring meno, than to put it into the skill bar, where it takes away space for actually putting a skill into the slot


5. Implement FF12s gambit system, with that we can practically program our characters to perform automatically certain things, if specific preset conditions are met, like for example, using potions in certain moments, this would help cleaning up iterms to be removed from the skil lbar, to free the place for actually skills, as long we have what is needed to perform the action in our inventories. Same could be done with skills, so that not absolutely every skill would need to be put into the skill bar to make usage of it, if there would be ff12s gambit system in FF14 helpinmg us out with the skill management to reduce the skill slot bloat

6. The Stat System should get completely overworked, seriously have never seen a worser Stat System in an MMROPG, than in FF14 It should get a Stat System, which provides Stats, that are useful for all classes, which doesnt make a stupid differentiation between class roles, has no pointless class specific stats and makes also no dumb differences between combat classes and non combat classes. Stats need to be shared among absolutely all classes, regarddless if combat or not combat class.

What FF14 needs is

- Power > Increases Maximum Damage you deal with Skills/Spells and the Maximum Health of a Character (individually for each Class differently). For Non Combat Classes increases Power the Efficiency of the Progress for Crafting in regard of Collectors the chance to obtain an item more than just 1 per gain
- Vitality > Increases Defense of the Character against Auto Attacks & Condition Resistance and decreases chance to get critically hit
- Precision >Increases Critical Hit Chance and the Maximum Damage of Auto Attacks. Increases the Chance of Collector/and Crafters to get HQ results/the efficiency of raising the quality % of an item you craft, what currently Control does
- Intelligence Increases Maximum Mana Points to perform SKills/Spells and reduces Recharge Times of Skills/Spells
- Wisdom Increases Defense against Skills/Spells and Activation Speed of Skills/how fast you can switch Weapons in combat
- Courage Affects how strong you produce Aggressivity with your Actions and increases the resistance against CC effects, likes stuns, transforms, or how strong platform changes affect you, like at Leviathan or Sophia, so that you can keep better control of your character
- Agility Increases Movement Speed and Attack Speed of your Auto Attacks, fastening their intervalls of happening. For Crafters and Collectors it affects how fast they perform their actions, especially as Crafter, how fast they perform their automatic crafting to reduc the time it takes to fulfull it, increasing the amount of items you create per process at certain thresholds of Agility
- Luck Gives you a chance to dodge/block/parry Attacks or even counterattack them and affects Drop Rates for you and the amount of Gil you receive from drops.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Players invented "double weaving" and "optimal rotations" and reliance on stat potions, it doesn't affect how the developers designed Dragoon. So the notion that you wouldn't be able to have all your buffs fit before Chaos Thrust is irrelevant.

The devs do consider how we play hence why jobs have changed from poor design philosophies; Warrior comes to mind. Be that as it may, you're insisting DRG has button bloat when my examples prove the contrary. Furthermore, this insistence this somehow makes DRG better is more than a little silly when the person arguing such doesn't actively play DRG.