DPS Job Rankings & Stats

[Karshan]

Alas not everyone has a static ; for people going in PF, it is useful to know quickly if you're wasting your time cause you're about to hit enrage everytime. Sometimes failure isn't visible at naked eye.

Let's say for instance. You miraculously find a team that does mechanics approximately ok (trust me it's a miracle, mechanic dealing in so called "kill groups" is a complete lie). So you have a CHANCE at killing. One DPS is pulling a 4k. 6k is required for each DPS, with tanks doing 4k and heals doing 2k.

No way 2k can be caught up by the other 7. Well you are bound to hit enrage. Knowing that, will you happily spend 3 hours knowing perfectly it won't lead anywhere ? I will not. When you reach kill level (mechanically) in hours, you don't want to be spending 3 hours in vain again, and again, and again, that adds up to 2-3 weeks later, still not down, all while you know the fight after a timer (thinking of O9S). Someone not going in PF cannot understand the pain of this "roulette". I'm no top player, YET I felt that pain.

Now there are people who will trash talk, or shame and replace and I am absolutely opposed to that. But seeing that, you can just politely walk out of there and not waste 3 hours. And I'm saying that knowing sometimes it will be me the deadweight. If we wipe at 2% and nobody died and I'm under them, I'm the one wasting 7 people time.

So indeed it is absolutely not needed to kill, but it helps a great deal analyzing what goes wrong.Or say if your group is just missing 800 rDPS then watching some logs can help you know how they maintain better uptime than you.

[Neela]

actually I said its for optimizing in my first post - dunno why you try to explain optimizing if that wasn't even the topic. i just said u do not need a parser for clearing savage - and that is after all argumentation still true. I also never said it wouldn't make things easier but that is I complete different topic.

So why still talking around the bush? If it doesn't change anything? ^^

[Karshan]

Savage and ultimate at thought out ilvl won't go down without some serious mastery of class.

I am honestly thinking that since most people know their class through guides, and guides are made with parsing to see what's more efficient...the "need" part is indirect, but it's here in some form, like a lurking shadow you see ? You don't personnally need one with you in O9S but you use a rotation that maxes out damage output and that rotation was laid down using parsing tools (or even calculators and simulators which are the same idea but not live).

I don't know if you see what I mean, I'm not saying for instance a group can't kill without a parser active ("what, ACT not on ? huhuh kill denied"). Just that they play their class in a way that's been found effective with parsing. Maybe it was said with that in mind, and everyone took I-don't-remember-the-name's words too literally.

[Neela]

how do u come to the conclusion that all people copy rotations as well?
just because speedrunners/hardcore raiders do so?

There is a huge amount of player who don't care the forum, balance discord or fflogs at all - so there are enough player who haven't seen a given rotation or ex-primal/savage guide in their life at all. It's just not true that there is content which isn't solvable without an unintended 3rd party tool. Even ultimate is clearable without ACT - it just need way more effort, try & error and motivation than without a data-tool - but its still manageable. So no ACT is not needed for anything other than optimizing.

[Karshan]

Clearly the statement "ACT is directly needed for the kill" is false, that's not what I'm arguing about. But I'd point out that it rather is "ACT is needed to know you actually were useful in that kill".
A lot of people don't take satisfaction in killing if they're weren't helpful so to them, "getting the kill" doesn't mean duty complete. It means "duty complete AND me doing good". They don't dissociate because to them there is no merit in killing if they were shit in that pull.

"There is a huge amount of player who don't care the forum, balance discord or fflogs at all" Indeed and the fact they go in something with savage or ultimate in the name without seeking information beforehand is alarming. How much do they respect the time of other people ? There are 7 other people in there so it's not just their own fun that counts.

Do note that deadweight can kill. But that doesn't change their nature. I'm not talking adapted fight rotation. I'm talking base, dummy rotation. People doing a random rotation won't down ultimate. For instance, a SMN not doing WW appropriately and desaligning dots application, etc. That is what I call knowing the rotation. These rotations were figured with external means.

If he doesn't output the damage required to down ultimate, someone else will need to step in. So the group kills but that SMN to me isn't a killer. He is a carry. And though the game itself will make no difference, there is a whole world between the two, and not for raiders only, for responsible adults who just don't find it ok to carry the world if the world isn't putting in the effort.

So ACT is not needed to get a kill, just to know if it was your doing.