My instant thought here was that it didn't sound correct and that the roleplayers' page might be stating their own impression as fact, but actually I think you've just misread it. It's optional, not required.
Originally Posted by Princess_Cassandra
However, the overall idea of there being lots of minor houses is correct.
Something worth noting that all the "fan-made house profiles" seem to have missed... Ishgardian Elezen are not Wildwood Elezen.
They use Wildwood models (mostly) but that's just because there's no physical difference between the two, and no need at a game level to create a separate clan. Lorewise the Ishgardian and Gelmorran (Gridanian) Elezen are an older split than the Wildwoods and Duskwights who have both come out of the Gelmorran civilisation.
A few characters do have Duskwight models - eg. Ysayle, Grinnaux de Dzemael and (curiously) Count Edmont but not the rest of his family. The Durendaires look like they'd be Duskwights, but they're not. It could well be just on design choice: Grinnaux has a scar that's only available on that Duskwight model; Carvallain and Jannequinard have the ear clasps only available on Wildwood characters.
That page you linked to on the official houses though... well, I was meaning to reply to that with some corrections but wanted to be sure I had all my facts... and then the website moved servers and the thread was locked forever as the uncorrectable "best reference". :/
Sounsyyv's post is useful overall and gathers in some good quotes, and yet the dot point information they've compiled makes several assumptions that aren't in (or are disproved by) those quotes.
It also seems to pre-date the lorebook and doesn't have any of that information.
It's kind of off-topic and got very long, so I'll hide the explanations.
The notes for Fortemps and Haillenarte seem fine, other than misspelling Edmont's name - and not listing "Lady Ninne of House Fortemps" at Dragonhead, who gets one brief mention in MSQ and another in a levequest, but doesn't seem to be a close relative of the others.
But the others...
Even before I had the lorebook (never mind the recent corrections), some of this information sounded off. They've assumed Drillemont is the second son despite nothing directly implying it - it's not a bad guess from the information they had (particularly both other Coerthan outposts being manned by sons of the House in charge), but it shouldn't have been listed as an absolute.
From the lorebook we now know that Drillemont de Lasserrant isn't even part of the family, and is nearly as old as the count.
I don't think Forlemort was ever referred to as "Ser", and was only ever noted as Jannequinard's uncle, not definitely the count's brother - he could have been married to the count's sister, or from Janne's mother's side of the family.
From Fernehalwes' corrections, Forlemort isn't even strictly Janne's uncle (=sibling of a parent) but in the loose sense that you might address any older non-grandparent relative as an uncle rather than the exact relationship.
The lorebook confirms that Carvallain is the count's son - and recently corrected to be his only son. Apparently owing to a mistranslation of Jannequinard being "third in line" as being the count's third son, but he is actually the count's nephew. Another (unseen, un-named) nephew is second-but-essentially-first in line.
* "Carvallain" may not be the name of the count's son, technically - we know his surname is an alias (Ser Gorgagne was the knight in charge of looking after the boy at the point when he vanished) and it's likely that his forename is as well.
Bonus family listing from Fernehalwes: "Lord Portelaine (stationed at the Observatory) is a (low ranking) member of House Durendaire and distant relative to Jannequinard (most likely through marriage)."
From the lorebook, we additionally know the founder is Guenriol de Durendaire (the lorebook does say "Geunriol" but I think it's a typo, since we've seen the name spelt the other way in-game) and the current count is named Charlemend.
"Baron Thieveneux, master of House Dzemael"? I had to re-read the levequest description to even work out where they got that out of it, but I think it's ambiguous.
- master of the House? ...bother it, I'm going to have that song from Les Mis in my head all night again.Landing the Big One
It has been said the best deals are struck during a session of fishing, and it just so happens yours truly was invited by Baron Thieveneux of House Dzemael, a staunch and wealthy patron of the temple knights to partake in such a leisure. Outside of the capital? Halone forbid! No, no, I have been invited to the manor's expansive ponds, stocked with the best and built by Dzemael hands. There is much profit to be had for the coffers from a leisure such as this, so I find myself in need of a fine cedar fishing rod...though not too fine, mind you. I would yield the fattest carp to the master of the House of Rook as I try to catch even bigger fish.
- the [fishing] master?
- Is the count coming on the fishing trip as well? And the leve requester is trying to catch "bigger fish" than the Baron who's already a patron?
In any case, a baron ranks lower than a count.
(I do have to wonder where in Ishgard they are managing to fit these fishing ponds, though...!)
Re. the discussion on page 2: Tarresson is a Wildwood.
Ser Grinnaux - confirmed by the lorebook to be the count's nephew. And as I said earlier, it's more likely he's "Ishgardian with a Duskwight appearance" than actually a Duskwight.
There's also the confusing phrasing "a son of House Dzemael" which seems to cover other family members and not just the direct sons of the count.
Tedalgrinche - I don't recall the title "lord commander" coming up at all. (I'm pretty sure that's strictly Aymeric's title.) It sounded unfamiliar when I first read this page a while ago, and still again after replaying the MCH quests recently.
Without reading through every quest again now, just some key ones...
- in his first appearance before being addressed by name, he's labeled as "Pretentious Noble", not a knight.
- he does seem to be in charge of Dzemael's knights, at least during the battle in western Coerthas.
- he and Stephanivien seem to have known each other a long time.
I would guess that he is part of the Dzemael family, but there's nothing clearly stated either way.
"Jandelaine & Guillefresne (not trueborn)" - either a strange misreading or a misunderstanding of the term "trueborn", which seems to simply be the opposite of "illegitimate". I think they might be using it to mean what the game actually use the term "son of House X" for.
Guillefresne's quoted dialogue just says that they're distant relatives.
Ah, but where are my manners? I am Guillefresne, of House... well, you are not like to know of us, but perhaps you do know of House Dzemael, with whom we share common ancestry.
And the list of minor houses...
I don't think Bale should be on that list. Alberic is a knight, not a noble - as far as I'm aware. And I know I saw a quote recently that knighthoods are earned, not inherited - it might have been in one of the levequest descriptions. (EDIT: Most tellingly, he's not Alberic de Bale so it seems unlikely that he's a noble.)
Not sure where Nevelle is noted as a Duskwight house.
Glenda (the mother from the WVR quest) seems to be a noble, though perhaps could be wealthy middle-class - I'd have to re-read the quest script.
I think Gerhardt (LTW) is just a wealthy merchant.
And there are a few more houses that could go on the list, but that's for another time.
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12-11-2018 04:00 AM #1Player
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(1)Last edited by Iscah; 12-13-2018 at 02:57 AM.
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12-11-2018 04:02 AM #2Player
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I intended to go through the whole thing paragraph by paragraph but ran out of steam halfway through. Also, please add more line breaks. I've added them in the quotes as an example.
BLOCK 1: INTRODUCTION
The story of Lana Mian's life humbly begins within an isolated tribe of Miqo'te struggling to make a living on the edge of the Shroud. Although she may be the central character, to consider this story Lana's alone would be a folly. This tale will instead be a shared narrative of Lana and the individuals who would mold her into the lady she is today.
As a little child, Lana would never see much of her biological father who had adopted the traditional life of a wanderer despite the tribe's societal progression. Lana's mother, Kira Mian, was the tribe's foremost medical expert, blessed by the elementals with restorative magics.
When the 7th Umbral Calamity inevitably brought Eorzea to her knees, the tribe was ravaged by the destructive flames that erupted across the lands. Many of the members were outright killed and their establishment was all but ruined. Before any harm could come to Lana, Kira grabbed the child by the arm and the two quickly fled the forest, narrowly escaping the chaos.
If you're embarking on telling someone's life story, it seems somewhat obvious that it will be about other people as well? Maybe skip that line and go straight into the telling. It's a lot of text to get through regardless.
"Medical expert" sounds rather modern and very unclear. Healer? Alchemist? Chirugeon? (I'm not certain but I think that might be more of a 'physical' rather than 'magical' healer role - though it does get used as a label for NPC conjurers.) and I'm sure there are other terms.
And what variety of "societal progression" are you picturing? With no other description besides "struggling tribe on the edge of the Shroud" (which edge?), I really have no idea what technology level you're picturing, or what culture you're comparing it to. Are they hunter-gatherers? A small fixed village? You probably want to describe this in your opening paragraph - after your first sentence perhaps.
And again, if you were basing it on Seeker Miqo'te tribes you may need to review that idea to Keeper comminities of a few families hunting together.
An "establishment" isn't a word you'd normally use for a village - it more implies a single building or business. Even more so combined with "members"!
And you said Lana is 20 years old. The Calamity was five years ago - which makes her a bit old to be a "child grabbed by the arm" at that point...
Also remember the world didn't simply "erupt into flames", it was set on fire by fragments of the falling moon, or Bahamut's direct attacks.
BLOCK 2: AMALJ'AA ATTACK
The duo would flee into the scorching sands of the Sultanate, undertaking a long and arduous journey through Eastern Thanalan with the intent to become another pair of hopeless refugees begging for Ul'dahn care.
Kira and Lana followed the barren desert road for what had felt like ages until suddenly, a band of vicious Amalj'aa raiders emerged in ambush. Kira's desperate pleas for help seemingly fell on empty ears as the towering beast-men slowly approached.
Moments before their large, sweaty reptilian hands could snatch the helpless Miqo'te, the savages were interrupted by the timely arrival of a mysterious figure and a fierce battle ensued. As the individual leapt off their chocobo and into the air, a beautiful intricate sword glimmered in the sky before being violently brought down on an unsuspecting raider. The blade sundered the first beast-man's skull and immediately struck fear into the others as they soon witnessed their brother's body slump to the sands and the first of today's blood drip from the man's sword.
The Amalj'aa furiously attacked what appeared to be a knight, swinging and lunging with long bladed weapons while preparing to fire enormous arrows from afar. In a great display of martial ability, the knight successfully defended himself against the incoming onslaught. He seized any openings for counter attack, hacking the heads off their weapons and plunging fatal blows when possible.
A young Lana watched in awe as the knight slew foe after foe until the rest decided to rout. Although the violence was as appalling to her as one might expect to a child of her age, the valor she saw today would inspire the lass for years to come.
When the conflict was over, Kira sincerely thanked the brave knight and politely wished to learn of her protector's name. The knight removed his helmet and introduced himself to be a handsome Ishgardian adventurer of the name Ser Fluerent de Vayssière.
When he finished greeting the troubled maiden, Fluerent violently grunted in pain, placing his hand on his waist and revealing a strange injury. Kira was puzzled at first, seeing how the heavily armored Elezen was seemingly untouchable mere moments ago, but upon further inspection she could see the burnt scars and scratches on his armor and the weariness written on his face.
Firstly, I had a go at rewording this section as an example of how you could condense things.
Originally I just crossed out the original words and left them in place, but it became unreadable so I've just put the whole thing separately.
Dark red for rewording, bright for anything I made up.
Could probably rewrite further and just have him collapse / in pain after the battle with wounds that don't match the fighting, and save introductions for later.The pair fled into the scorching sands of Thanalan with the intent to seek refuge in Ul'dah.
Kira and Lana followed the barren road through the desert until they came to a small canyon. Suddenly, a band of vicious Amalj'aa raiders emerged in ambush. Kira's desperate pleas for help seemingly fell on empty ears as the towering beast-men slowly approached.
Moments before they could snatch the helpless Miqo'te, the sound of an approaching rider echoed through the canyon. A beautiful intricate sword flashed through the air as it was violently brought down on an unsuspecting raider, sundering the beast-man's skull.
Enraged by the sight of their brother's blood, the Amalj'aa furiously attacked what appeared to be a knight, swinging and lunging with long bladed weapons, and firing enormous arrows from afar. In a great display of martial ability, the knight successfully defended himself against the incoming onslaught. He seized any openings for counter attack, breaking their weapons and plunging fatal blows when possible.
A young Lana watched in awe as the knight slew foe after foe until the remants were forced to retreat. Though horrified by the violence, the valor she saw today would inspire the lass for years to come.
As the last enemies fled, Kira sincerely thanked the brave knight andpolitelywished to learn of her protector's name. The knight removed his helmet and introduced himself to be ahandsomeIshgardian adventurer of the name Ser Fluerent de Vayssière.
Suddenly Fluerent violently grunted in pain, placing his hand on his waist and revealing a strange injury. Kira was puzzled at first, seeing how the heavily-armored Elezen seemed untouchable mere moments ago, but upon further inspection she could see the burnt scars and scratches on his armor and the weariness written on his face.
Still not how I'd write all of it, but I didn't want to take out everything.
There's a rather literal obstacle in the way of fleeing from the Black Shroud to Ul'dah immediately after the Calamity: the huge canyon that runs through eastern Thanalan was caused by it - presumably from the impact of the Dalamud fragment embedded in (and causing the formation of) the Burning Wall.
Additionally, Carteneau would be on the other side of the newly-formed chasm.
If you want this to play out, you're going to need to get Kira and Lana out of the Shroud and headed for central Thanalan BEFORE Dalamud explodes.
But if you can resolve that part...
"the intent to become another pair of hopeless refugees begging for Ul'dahn care"? Nobody sets out with that intent! That's just what they end up with instead of the safety they're hoping to find.
"followed the barren desert road for what had felt like ages" - not a good phrase in this sort of "reporting events" writing. Hours? All night? All day? or just leave it out and reword the sentence.
"immediately struck fear into the others" - I greatly doubt the Amalj'aa - a fierce warrior tribe, and likely tempered besides - would be struck with fear at the sight of one being killed. It would fire them up for battle.
"the knight slew foe after foe until the rest decided to rout". While the dictionary definition is a bit unclear as to whether it's acceptable usage, I have never seen 'rout' used that way. A rout is something the winner of the battle inflicts upon the loser.
BLOCK 3: SER FLEURENT / CARTENEAU
Kira's concern grew, leading her to eventually persuading the Elezen to let her try healing the wounds over night. Fluerent begrudgingly accepted her assistance and subsequently decided to rent a room at the nearest inn.
As she helped to remove his chest armor, Fleurent decided to explain the origin of his injury. The weary knight began with The Battle of Cartenaeu, where he joined the Alliance forces as part of one of the Immortal Flames' adventurer units standing against the VIIth Imperial Legion of the Garlean Empire. His voice cracked with sorrow as he described the bloodshed that followed the clashing of armies. When the moon Dalamund fell and Bahamut's wrath was unleashed upon the continent, Fluerent became separated from enemy and comrade alike before being violently thrown by a nearby explosion. His ironclad armor just barely spared him from the initial blast and any subsequent shrapnel flying his way but one of his ribs cracked upon impact, resulting in internal bleeding.
By the time he was able to stand back up on his feet the fighting was decisively over, with the soldiers from both sides fleeing for their lives as more explosions erupted across the battlefield. Fluerent was one of the last to withdraw in time to escape the carnage and decided to return to Ul'dah on his own until he encountered Kira and Lana Mian.
Why did he set out for Ul'dah alone, still injured? Why not stay with the army and be treated by the healers there?
Also I'm not sure of the exact path from Carteneau to Ul'dah but I think it may run through western Thanalan. Either that or northern/central, but it won't take him into the east.
For a 'firsthand' look at the aftermath of Carteneau, have a look at Kan-E-Senna and Merlwyb's chapters of "Tales from the Calamity".
"ironclad armor" - you can have iron armour (though steel is more likely) and the knight is 'clad in iron' while wearing it, but the armour itself is not ironclad.
BLOCK 4: HEALING
Kira and Lana were staggered by the knight's story and might have been skeptical if a similar apocalypse didn't befell their tribe not long ago. Lana's mother tried to describe the events that transpired on her and her daughter's end but broke down crying. Fluerent comforted the woman in his embrace and the trio would spend the night mourning over the losses they each witnessed.
The next day Kira put her conjury skills to the test and managed to heal Fluerent's internal wounds. The process took several days to complete but when she was finally finished Fluerent was very pleased to see himself restored to good health.
Before taking his leave, he patted Lana on the head, gave Kira a hug, and handed the woman a handsome pouch of gil to compensate. Fluerent thought himself righteous to give the lady extra money, that he did it out of sympathy for the refugee's plight but subconsciously there was another reason, one that the noble Ishgardian blood in him wasn't capable of accepting just yet...
Kira and Lana were staggered by the knight's story and might have been skeptical if a similar apocalypse didn't befell their tribe not long ago.
Spellcheck: didn't befall
But it's not a similar apocalypse. It's the same apocalypse and they've just seen it play out from different angles.
Before taking his leave, he patted Lana on the head - That sounds very... patronising. And again, what age is she supposed to be here? I think you need to mention it at the start.
Don't forget that the official tactic for dealing with dates is to ignore the X years that have obviously passed since the beginning of ARR, and give all years and ages as they were at that point. We started our journey five years after the Calamity, ended the Dragonsong War five years after the Calamity, and liberated Ala Mhigo five years after the Calamity.
BLOCK 5+: BUDDING ROMANCE
It's late and I'm tired, but the further I read into this the harder it is to follow anything. Too many details and not enough line breaks. I'm starting to skim over everything. Do I need to know about nice dresses and fancy restaurant dates that weren't even for your character? Does Ul'dah even have "restaurants"? (That did send me off to Wikipedia again - the general concept of a business selling meals has certainly been around long enough, but the term is from 18th-century France and doesn't sit well with Ul'dah's medieval-Byzantine-middle-Eastern-somethingy vibe. It seems more acceptable in Limsa.)
"House Gisoreux" again. Apparently this is Fleurent's house and hasn't been renamed along with Fleurent himself. Unless there's an explanation I've missed, I would be very confused by this.
OFF TO COERTHAS
Conversations must have a line break every time a different person begins to speak. That's not me saying what I want to see, it's a basic rule for English (and probably other languages') writing anywhere.
Also there's no need to give a detailed description of each of the three coachmen at the start - just identify them as they start to speak.
I really can't follow any of the action, it's just one big blob. I don't know who's speaking without having to find the right "he said" part in the middle of the block and then go back to where I was reading.
I don't want to be rude, but I'm really trying to read this all to answer you properly, and I can't get through it. So for anyone else who wants to roleplay with you, having to filter all of it to understand your character and background, it well may either get ignored or put people off.
...I've got to the end and haven't really absorbed the middle. But Lana and Kira aren't going to be "sent" to the Brume, they're going to be kicked out of the manor and left on the street with whatever possessions they're allowed to take with them. Anything beyond that is of no concern to the nobles - but if they've got nothing and nowhere to go, and can't find employment elsewhere, then the Brume is just likely where they'll end up.
And I still don't understand why Kira, as a capable healer, isn't just travelling with Lana in the first place.
I might try again with more of it. I could pick through grammar and phrasing for ages, but I don't know if that's what you want.(2)Last edited by Iscah; 12-11-2018 at 04:05 AM.
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12-12-2018 02:46 AM #3Player
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Hi, Sounsyy here, just wanted to comment on this specifically. As you mentioned, this was written in 2015, a full year before useful tools like the first Encyclopedia Eorzea and XIVDB's Lore Finder existed. By the time those clarifications were more easily available, it was either too late to make corrections or I just lacked the energy to go back through every post I'd ever made and add in the corrected info. This post in particular has haunted me for years now because of mistakes and assumptions based on lack of info or misinformation/unclear information at the time (ex. Ishgardian Elezen =/= Wildwood/Duskwight, or the more recent Carvallain lore bomb dropped by Ferne). Sadly I can't go back and correct / delete this post. My only hope is that readers will look at it (and it's date!) and absorb the information with a discerning eye like you have or with a hefty grain of salt.
Originally Posted by Iscah
Thanks for understanding and thank you for correcting the old info for others who're still using this post as a reference!(3)
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12-12-2018 06:39 AM #4Player
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Sorry for displaying your very old post Sounsyy, I didn't realize the lore book came out after it was written. I'll be sure to look at dates more closely now.
Originally Posted by Sounsyy
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