Thanks to the 2nd lore book my theory on house Dzemael could hold some truth

[SannaR]

I mean Koji did say there are a lot more people we don't meet or see in the towns. Also when you are of a culture where sometimes even the slightest of things out of the "normal" can get you thought of as a heretic I'm sure there are behaviors or events that are only talked about or done in hushed tones behind closed doors. Look at poor Cyr as an example of how desperate he was to find something he could charge the Mandervilles with. Also yes Stephanivien needs more spot light. I do remember Tarresson saying he doesn't know what the heck is wrong with his family's current generation and that he apologized for any sour taste in our mouth his house might have given us.

[Iscah]

I think it would be funny to assume it's Artoirel with the fish collection, though. XD

Hah! He's got to have some kind of quirk.

I do like Artoirel. I thought it was interesting that he started off so antagonistic and then changed his mind and apologised for it.


Also this discussion is reminding me that I still need to do the Scholasticate quests.

[AmemeAmeklin]

I do like Artoirel. I thought it was interesting that he started off so antagonistic and then changed his mind and apologised for it.

It struck me as a bit sad that he took up his mother's side against Haurchefant when they seemed to have the same kind of outlook on duty and whatnot...he did express regret about not talking to him as much as he could have.

Also, you haven't done the Scholasticate quests? GASP. You get to meet members of a few noble houses and learn a bit of lore...and also key facts about their religion! Granted the comments that it's a lot like Ishgardian Harry Potter aren't wrong, but it does delve into a few things you don't otherwise learn about in the rest of the game.

[Wyssahtyn]

Other than Haurchefant's rather harmless but obviously eccentric tendencies, we have temple knights who make a habit of dragging off young women from the Brume to rape them...

And then we have the Ishgardian merchant in Kugane who is not only not put off by the fact that an actor he previously thought was a beautiful lady was really an average guy in lots of make-up, he doubles down on his fascination and passionately declares his continued interest.

I'd have to keep poking around to find more flavor text and sidequests. Ishgard is a colorful place full of many secrets! I feel like most Elezen are dignified stuffed shirts at first glance but are usually secretly (or openly) obsessed with at least one thing to the point of eccentricity.

The Elezen NPC in the "The Perfect Woman" quest in Kugane is only ever identified as a foreigner to Hingashi through the name "Ijin Merchant". It is not stated that he is Ishgardian.

[Iscah]

It struck me as a bit sad that he took up his mother's side against Haurchefant when they seemed to have the same kind of outlook on duty and whatnot...he did express regret about not talking to him as much as he could have.

I agree, though it probably does make sense from his point of view. We don't have a really clear timeline of their childhoods, but the side story with Francel and Haurchefant's first meeting has them aged 6 and 12, which would suggest Haurchefant only came to live at the manor around that age. Artoirel would be 14 and understandably more loyal to his mother than this bratty stranger whose presence upsets her.

And I guess once you've formed those feelings as children, it's harder to step back and build a relationship as adults.

Also, you haven't done the Scholasticate quests? GASP.

...do I have to hand in my Ishgardian Lore Nerd card now?

But seriously, I got caught up leveling battle classes for those stories and also going through MSQ again. I just re-finished Heavensward though, so it's probably a good time to get back to it. (I might have already if they didn't announce Shadowbringers and it made me decide I needed to get my other designated-future-dark-knight character through post-ARR and into Ishgard sooner rather than later...)

[AmemeAmeklin]

The Elezen NPC in the "The Perfect Woman" quest in Kugane is only ever identified as a foreigner to Hingashi through the name "Ijin Merchant". It is not stated that he is Ishgardian.

Ugh, it's hard for me to go back and reread the dialogue if it's already done, but I'm pretty sure he mentions Ishgard specifically at some point. I may need to hunt up some friends who haven't done it and make them tell me what it says...

Iscah, you have to hand in your wand >

[SannaR]

Is Artoirel the oldest? It came off to me as though Haurchefant was and that his mom died and their father remarried she who became the other two's mother and that she just disliked Haurchefant because it was a reminder of Lord Fortemps 1st wife. Instead of a constant reminder of a moment of lust.

Hmm I wonder if the house that puts on the Valentines day event had to get special papers to do so as I'm sure not every gate guard knows her face or the faces of the others that go with her each year. Along with how much is kept secret. I'm sure the first couple of times they held it in Ishgard people thought they were nuts.

[Iscah]

Ugh, it's hard for me to go back and reread the dialogue if it's already done, but I'm pretty sure he mentions Ishgard specifically at some point. I may need to hunt up some friends who haven't done it and make them tell me what it says...

Garland Tools is your friend.

Quest script

Is Artoirel the oldest? It came off to me as though Haurchefant was and that his mom died and their father remarried she who became the other two's mother and that she just disliked Haurchefant because it was a reminder of Lord Fortemps 1st wife. Instead of a constant reminder of a moment of lust.

It's all (well, mostly) in the lorebook. Artoirel is 30 and Haurchefant is 28. The game doesn't make it clear who's eldest, but it's definitely said in-game that Haurchefant is illegitimate - "the result of the count's sole indiscretion" as the lorebook (and from memory, the game) phrases it - so Artoirel is "officially" Edmont's eldest son regardless of who's actually older.

I'm not sure if there was more information given elsewhere about his mother - the lorebook just says he was raised together with Edmont's other sons, but I think I remember reading somewhere that he was raised by his mother initially? I don't have a source but maybe someone else remembers seeing it.

[Silivrin]

I think I recall Emmanellain specifying that he was the trueborn second son, which also seems to imply that the order is Artoirel -> Haurchefant -> Emmanellain. I'll see if I can find the quote.

Edit: Here it is https://www.garlandtools.org/db/#quest/67126

[AmemeAmeklin]

I suppose I was looking at the merchant's clothes since he was wearing Ishgardian fashion! :X The Justacorps top is very specifically called Ishgardian in the weaver line quests, because we're sent to Ul'dah to see some nobles and end up finding Emmanellain in that same top and Laniaitte in the female version.

Artoirel is 30, Haurchefant 28, Emmanellain 26. Emmanellain is also the shortest of the three. All that drinking stunted his growth. >.>

As for Haurchefant being raised by his mother, I think early on he was...he did definitely know her, as at one point you can talk to him and he mentions she was devout but extremely frail.

...My dear mother was a woman both beautiful and righteous, yet terribly, terribly frail. Thus, have I ever been fascinated by those blessed with physical fortitude and spiritual conviction in equal measure.

Beyond that they don't really explain. We do get a glimpse of his childhood in the short stories...it does sound as if he was treated poorly after his arrival, likely by the countess. Given how Haurchefant acts in battles (EX: he doesn't respond to Charibert calling him a noble bastard but Hilda retorts when called a mongrel bitch; does not respond when Guillaime tries to shame him into quitting), he completely ignores any taunting and I assume has some very thick skin when it comes to things people try to say to his face.