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  1. #1
    Player
    Hierro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    722
    Character
    Ziero Rehw-bidit
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyth View Post
    Also, this bit about TBN being equivalent to self-healing is nonsense. Pick an older fight to solo and try to "self-sustain" yourself using just TBN. There's no way of recovering lost health, so if the fight drags on for long enough, you're going to die. It's like saying that Hallowed represents an infinite amount of self-healing.
    An older fight? Are we going to talk about relevant situations or not? It doesn't make sense to use "soloing old content" as valid criteria for self healing when the only valuable context is for the sake of giving healers an easier time in relevant content.
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player
    shao32's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    arcadis
    Posts
    2,067
    Character
    Shao Kuraisenshi
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Hierro View Post
    An older fight? Are we going to talk about relevant situations or not? It doesn't make sense to use "soloing old content" as valid criteria for self healing when the only valuable context is for the sake of giving healers an easier time in relevant content.
    mitigation is not HPS, TBN is not a self-healing skill bcs it's don't recover any HP in the process so it can't be classified as such in any form of argument.
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player
    Hierro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    722
    Character
    Ziero Rehw-bidit
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by shao32 View Post
    mitigation is not HPS, TBN is not a self-healing skill bcs it's don't recover any HP in the process so it can't be classified as such in any form of argument.
    It's all eHP, so I don't know what to tell you exactly especially when fflogs classifies it as such.
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    shao32's Avatar
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    Apr 2015
    Location
    arcadis
    Posts
    2,067
    Character
    Shao Kuraisenshi
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Hierro View Post
    It's all eHP, so I don't know what to tell you exactly especially when fflogs classifies it as such.
    bcs is a shield and i guess its recognice the skill effect at the same way as a galvanize from sch and put the shield mitigation in that section, if you look at WAR logs shake it off is in the same section too.
    (0)
    Last edited by shao32; 01-07-2019 at 04:14 AM.

  5. #5
    Player
    Lyth's Avatar
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    Jul 2015
    Location
    Meracydia
    Posts
    3,883
    Character
    Lythia Norvaine
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Hierro View Post
    ...
    Self-sustain means exactly what it says on the tin. You cannot measure "self-sustain" if there is a healer present. If you're capable of soloing current content, then we can use that as a metric instead.

    Also, don't let fflogs (or other people, for that matter) do your thinking for you.
    (3)

  6. #6
    Player
    Hierro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    722
    Character
    Ziero Rehw-bidit
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyth View Post
    Self-sustain means exactly what it says on the tin. You cannot measure "self-sustain" if there is a healer present. If you're capable of soloing current content, then we can use that as a metric instead.

    Also, don't let fflogs (or other people, for that matter) do your thinking for you.
    Good thing we're talking about healing, not sustainability. Not even WAR can "self-sustain" entirely through today's raids.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    Lyth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Meracydia
    Posts
    3,883
    Character
    Lythia Norvaine
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Hierro View Post
    Good thing we're talking about healing, not sustainability. Not even WAR can "self-sustain" entirely through today's raids.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hierro View Post
    as an interesting aside, I looked up some of the top parses for tanks on A12S. Warriors seem to average around 500 HPS in terms of sustain, but I found a DRK who broke 6.1k DPS while healing 700 HPS through liberal usage of TBN.
    Keep moving the bar, friend.
    (4)

  8. #8
    Player
    Hierro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    722
    Character
    Ziero Rehw-bidit
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyth View Post
    Keep moving the bar, friend.
    You're the one asking for soloing today's content.
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,870
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Hierro View Post
    An older fight? Are we going to talk about relevant situations or not? It doesn't make sense to use "soloing old content" as valid criteria for self healing when the only valuable context is for the sake of giving healers an easier time in relevant content.
    When the point you're replying to is that 'it's not sufficient in relevant content, despite what others may have you believe about TBN's strength', is it worth jumping down someone's throat to slap on the same parameters they're already implying as the reasonable limits of discussion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising View Post
    In an ideal world, I wish to see blood weapon and blood price just built into the stances they are a part of, and have our cooldowns buff their attributes further.
    <Spitball idea warning>

    I've been thinking about this myself. Consider if Blood Weapon's MP generation is a default behavior. It creates MP at a flat amount + per-potency amount. The Blood Weapon skill itself increasingly drains MP to proportionately build Attack Speed or whatnot.

    Imagine there as being Shadow, Blood, and then Black Blood (the combination of each) as resources. The first two are simply a graphic overlaid atop the HP and MP bars, showing what portion of your HP or MP can be "tapped" -- used for something more. The third is an optional bar onto which these can be duplicated, along with always showing the shared amount. Generating self-healing taps HP, with overhealing still tapping. Spending MP creates 'tapped' MP - Shadow. Both "taps" gradually fade with time, at a combination flat and percentage rate. To make the largest Blood shield you can, then, you should generate a ton of healing. To maximally augment or sustain defensive Shadow abilities (Shadowskin, Shadow Wall (now utility), Dark Dance, Dark Mind), you should rapidly spend just before having to augment/sustain. As a rule of thumb, Blood provides fixed absorption, Shadow provides chance/percentile mitigation.

    Darkside allows you to consume untapped resource, albeit at lesser efficiency. For MP, this means higher potential burst at cost to sustain. For HP, this means being able to put up a blood shield at cost of current HP (where it would normally be free if from "tapped HP" alone, just consuming the tap) in time to be healed up before a big hit.

    Let's say we return Shadowskin and Dark Dance in some form and throw on two Blood spenders to balance that out: Red Thirst™ (Bloodbath with a fixed bonus; great for pairing with AD or Unleash) and Grim Ward (slices upward/forward, leaving a trail of [energized, slightly gelatinous-looking] blood that forms a shield before the DRK).

    So, Blood Weapon consumes MP for Attack Speed, tapping MP.
    Blood Price causes HP consumed/lost to generate MP, tapping HP.
    Delirium enhances certain Blood/Shadow effects for its duration.
    Then your (buffed) Quietus, The Blackest Night, and Bloodspiller consume both.
    (Or, have Bloodspiller spend Blood to deal massive damage and debuff the enemy to provide a flat self-heal bonus to each of your strikes, have a revised TBN spend Shadow, have Quietus spend both, and use a different second Black Blood skill -- whatever, really.)

    So, you build MP and HP for bonus damage/effectiveness and survival, tap MP and HP for further bonus effectiveness/abilities, and can combine them through Black Blood for yet more.
    (0)
    Last edited by Shurrikhan; 01-07-2019 at 12:07 PM.

  10. #10
    Player
    Chrono_Rising's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    922
    Character
    Gulvioir Muruc
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    Snip
    Can you describe the tapping mechanics in more detail?
    (0)

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