Drk: worst designed class

[AugusAgura]

I would like to see two skills changed:
Living dead
Salted earth

Everyone would probably agree that the current living dead is lacking(trash). I think they should implement some of that Drk knight lore and make living dead a Self-Raising ability. Drk knight having the ability to return from the darkness just makes sense in my Drk Mind.

They should also make salted earth have hp or mp regen ability when paired with dark Arts. The regen ability should stack based on the amount of mobs, or if you're standing inside the aoe yourself. I know another Drk Arts ability may be annoying, but maybe remove the dark arts ability from plunge?

Not sure if this idea has ever been thrown out there. How would you guys feel about it?

[Tint]

[...] but maybe remove the dark arts ability from plunge?

What?! Hell no, that's the best thing that ever happened to DRK: Pulling with your gap closer!

I also don't see the benefit of a regen ability on Salted Earth. It already generates Blood based on the amount of mobs standing inside. With Quietus you turn that Blood into MP and with DA Abyssal Drain you turn the MP into a selfheal.
Abyssal Drain is powerfull enough, we don't need another AoE selfheal.

[AugusAgura]

The AoE self heal doesnt work well for single targets though. Having a regen ability definitely wouldnt hurt.

[Kreyd]

I don't think it's bad designed. A lot of abilities are just very situational or seem like especially meant for aoe, like Blood Price, Salted Earth, DA + DP/AD/Quietus.
Even the required selfhealing of Living Dead is no problem at aoe, since you get a ton of selfhealing with DA+AD.

Blood Price is a joke in single target, but you're locked out from Blood Weapon in tank stance.
Living Dead is a double edged sword.
Sole Survivor is now usable in a non ad fight, but requires knowledge of the fight and planning.
Dark Passenger is a dps gain at aoe, but unneeded at single target.
Abyssal Drain is superior to Unleash, but harder to target.
Souleater doesn't heal in non tank stance.
Dark Mind only works on magic dmg.
Carve&Spit is double weave most of the time.

I don't really think it makes much sense to make adjustements to this skills now, since we don't know what will happen to Dark Arts with 5.0 and how it will affect our whole kit.

But I would scrap Blood Price and make Blood Weaon avaiable in tank stance. Turn Sole Survivor into a party wide regen ability. Give the potency and DA effect of AD to Unleash. Buff the dmg or remove the mp costs at DP, so it's worth using on single target. Make Souleater healing in non tank stance. And decrease the required healing for Living Dead, so it's less dangerous.

[DaulBan]

I personally wouldn't mind losing Dark Mind in exchange for a life leech on Sole Survivor.

[Lyth]

If you go back and actually look at the context of that post that you've cherry-picked out from about a month ago (I didn't know that PLDs could raise dead this expansion), it's not an unreasonable point.

Viewed in isolation, Dark Mind is probably a bit too strong. But that's also a reflection of the fact that tank mitigation, on the whole, is much too strong. I think that even if every tank was limited to Rampart, a 30%/120s cooldown, a 5+ min recast invincibility move, and Sheltron/IB/TBN, you'd still power through most of the encounters we've seen designed this expansion.

Right now, tanks are simplified melee dps who pop mitigation cooldowns on a set, fight-specific rotation. The devs, in their infinite wisdom, seem to think that we do too much dps. So if you take that element away, at least the mitigation end of things needs to be more challenging.

I think that the entire suite of tank defensive abilities needs to be re-evaluated. Dark Mind should be removed. So, too, should Thrill of Battle and Raw Intuition, with Holmgang increased to at least a 5 minute recast. Inner Beast should be stance independent so that you actually have to use it to clear content. Sentinel should be dropped down to a 2 minute recast. Cover should be merged with Intervention and incorporated into the underutilised PLD gauge system. Bulwark should be a traited form of Anticipation.

So yeah, Dark Mind is a problem, but it's also part of a much, much bigger problem across all tanks.

As for lifesteal - well, probably the number one thing that people have been asking for is a clear cut identity for jobs like DRK, WHM, and MCH. I'm fully behind the idea of making DRK into a lifesteal-themed tank. WAR can go do something else, as far as I'm concerned, unless they want to give up having the best burst dps and the best burst enmity as their schtick. You can't be everything at once.

[Shurrikhan]

As for lifesteal - well, probably the number one thing that people have been asking for is a clear cut identity for jobs like DRK, WHM, and MCH. I'm fully behind the idea of making DRK into a lifesteal-themed tank. WAR can go do something else, as far as I'm concerned, unless they want to give up having the best burst dps and the best burst enmity as their schtick. You can't be everything at once.

Is Lifesteal really a sufficient mechanic by which to differentiate oneself, though? It's at best a mechanic of heightened sustain without eMHP bonuses. That's no better than differentiating oneself off HoTs or sustained DPS. They're things that can help make more vivid identities work cohesively, aesthetically and functionally, but not nearly enough unto themselves.

[Lyth]

It absolutely is enough, though. A job identity doesn't need to give you a strict advantage. It needs to give you a unique gameplay experience.

I started out tanking on warrior tanks in Warcraft some 12 years ago. Back then, the thing that interested me was their sheer mobility. Charge to an enemy. Intercept back to an ally. It didn't really matter to me if this mobility translated into a gameplay advantage or made my class into a must pick. I felt like I controlled the battlefield. It felt unique. And most importantly, it felt fun.

When DRK was first introduced in Heavensward, we had a lot of unique flair. DRK felt fast, and so, so mobile. We had an attack between every attack. You hit us, we hit you back. Stormblood eroded this in nearly every area. The role action system either gave away or removed most of our counter-attack moves. Onslaught gives WAR double the amount of mobility that we have. The sheer amount of knockbacks this expansion make this painfully obvious. Dark Arts feels like molasses, and doesn't feel nearly as good as throwing in a kick or stab weaved in-between every other attack. Our reprisal is now everyone's reprisal. I don't mind that we're behind the other two tanks in terms of performance. What I do object to is being robbed of all of our unique traits, simply because players maining other tank jobs were too greedy. Enough is enough. Get out of our space.

Fell cleave is sacrosanct. If Bloodspiller or Holy Spirit did more damage, WAR mains would lose their minds over it. I want something that is uniquely "owned" by DRK. I think that there are two natural areas for this. The first is speed. The second is resource draining, be it HP, MP, or blood. I want to see lots and lots of green numbers. This is our space.

And if there's a new gunblade-based tank next expansion, they would do well to kick WAR right out of the mobility department. If we're going to keep introducing new tanks and healers, you simply cannot afford to have one tank which can do everything.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

I'd argue that WHM is the worst designed job. At least you can still be competitive in a sense. WHM is just bad in every way you look at it. Worse way of healing, not strongest at healing, not strongest at DPS, entire job mechanic is useless, no utility or raid synergy.

It's crazy.

[Lyth]

PLD/WAR and WHM/SCH were designed in ARR around these being the only tanks and only healers. They worked because there wasn't really any significant overlap.

When the devs introduced a third tank and a third healer, they should have narrowed the existing jobs so that they didn't cover as broad an area. They didn't. DRK was introduced as something in-between PLD and WAR. AST was introduced as something in-between WHM and SCH.

The end result over the past two expansions is that we've seen PLD and DRK trade-off with each other based on who is the better PLD, and WHM and AST trade-off with each other based on who is the better WHM. WAR and SCH dabble in a lot of different areas, such that their guaranteed spots have been relatively well insulated. They're also the reason why there wasn't really room for a third tank and healer.

Healers have another layer of problems with raid buffs (Balance, Strategem). I'm glad that tanks haven't really run into this issue yet, outside of the Slashing issue. Because stacking raid buffs don't have diminishing returns, it's pretty much mandatory for your job to bring one in order to stay competitive.

I'm hoping that the addition of a fourth tank and healer will force the devs to re-evaluate tanks and healers from the ground up. There isn't room for a fourth. You have to make room. The starting point for that is to look at how broad WAR and SCH's kits have become, and give them a more narrow focus, in keeping with everyone else.