Drk: worst designed class

[Insanecell]

So DRK is getting a rework a 5.0?

[Lyth]

The developer feedback around the DRK rework in 4.3 suggested that there were issues related to DRK's resource management and gameplay that still needed time to be addressed, so the general thought was that this would happen in the expansion as opposed to 4.4/4.5.

Dark Knight
We are aware of the feedback we received globally, and understand that we need to make adjustments to this job. However, adjustments to the fundamentals of a job requires a good amount of time. For this reason, it would be difficult to make these adjustments during the patch series, and we won’t be able to address all the feedback we have received at this time. Please note that we will make as many adjustments as we possibly can.

There have been a lot of comments to adjust the frequency of Dark Arts usage, but for these changes we haven’t made any major adjustments to Dark Arts. Instead we have made overall adjustments to increase their offensive/defensive capabilities and usability.

Most jobs get some amount of rework during an expansion, but to implement the above considerations with DRK you do need to re-evaluate the resource system and how certain actions are designed.

DRK has a lot of interesting ideas with questionable implementation. It's nice, for example to have the option to either use Carve and Spit to generate MP in AoE, while being able to use DA to boost its damage in single target. In practice, however, most uses of Carve and Spit occur under DA, and it's nearly always a double weave. Is it necessary? No. I'm not actually making two decisions. I just want to press one button with the cost attached.

Likewise, take Delirium. Do I ever want to use Delirium without Blood Weapon or Price? No. There are four conditions to get a benefit from using the action. You need to have the correct amount of blood. Blood Weapon/Price has to be up. You have to activate the buff first and then extend it with Delirium. You need a minimum of 16 seconds of continuous uptime on the boss. Most jobs have one button for their big offensive buff, with no resource costs attached. And nearly all of them have a significantly bigger impact than Delirium.

The other common point is the fact that DRK tends to be the middle ground between WAR's absolute offense and PLD's absolute support, and it really needs a direction of its own. Self-healing/lifesteal is a good direction from this, but it needs to be a thematic direction across the entire job. Bloodspiller is a good example. It needs to be more than just a weaker Fell Cleave clone. Even if it gave you a small bit of health back, it'd offer a bit of unique flavour.

By the way, it's not hard at all to change Bloodspiller's effectiveness without changing the balance on TBN. The single easiest way is to drop both the cost of Bloodspiller and the amount of blood generated by TBN by the same amount. That gives you more frequent Bloodspillers while keeping TBN dps neutral. The alternative is to change Souleater and Bloodspiller by the same potency, which keeps the frequency the same while changing the potency.

I do think that direct "heals" are more a PLD thing in FF series lore, though, while restoring HP through attacks is more a DRK thing.

Jandor reminded me about the comment from fanfest about shields being integrated with the HP bar in 5.0. At the time, I thought that it was just a neat idea (could we see the amount of healing required to cleanse Walking Dead implemented in a similar way?) But I didn't really consider potential ramifications. If shields are now a numerical resource, then they may not necessarily exist as discrete buffs. If you have Adlo, TBN, and Shake stacked, your shield resource measures the total.

So do you keep all the buff timers, and just display the total amount of shielding? Do you remove the timers, and just merge all shields together into a single resource which, say, decays over time? Is there a max shield value that you can attain?

At the moment, shields are pretty powerful. They don't suffer from diminishing returns the way % damage reduction works. There are some limitations placed in terms off SCH and Noct AST interactions, but groups can put out a lot of shielding at the moment. A shield resource with an upper limit would both address the power of shields and rein it in. This would have implications for both TBN as well as the Veil/Shake LB cheese, but we'll have to see what happens.

[Renato]

The other common point is the fact that DRK tends to be the middle ground between WAR's absolute offense and PLD's absolute support, and it really needs a direction of its own. Self-healing/lifesteal is a good direction from this, but it needs to be a thematic direction across the entire job. Bloodspiller is a good example. It needs to be more than just a weaker Fell Cleave clone. Even if it gave you a small bit of health back, it'd offer a bit of unique flavour.

This was my biggest issue with the job. It's always been my favorite job throughout the series and as far back as I can remember, it's always had abilities that relies on lifesteal and using health to deal larger amounts of damage. It seems like WAR is more akin to the traditional DRK than the DRK itself with 3 skills that lifesteal (opposed to DRK's two), a skill that uses HP difference to increase attack potency and even in some of it's skill aesthetics such as Inner Release that give that cool black fire animation and glowing eyes...I don't know what SE was thinking when they went this route.

I feel like DRK's defense should be it's offense. It mitigates damage because it's constantly draining health from the enemy.

[armandojc3]

This was my biggest issue with the job. It's always been my favorite job throughout the series and as far back as I can remember, it's always had abilities that relies on lifesteal and using health to deal larger amounts of damage. It seems like WAR is more akin to the traditional DRK than the DRK itself with 3 skills that lifesteal (opposed to DRK's two), a skill that uses HP difference to increase attack potency and even in some of it's skill aesthetics such as Inner Release that give that cool black fire animation and glowing eyes...I don't know what SE was thinking when they went this route.

I feel like DRK's defense should be it's offense. It mitigates damage because it's constantly draining health from the enemy.

This.

The dark night theme feels like a mage-tank.

[Ramzakristos]

when i picked it up,that job that is,i was very impressed with the aesthetics.as i started playing i noticed a lack of power and clear cut path to improvement.however i must admit,that this could stems from my inability to manage the resource.however for me it was the weakest of the 3 jobs.o do just fine as a PLD and WAR BUT i never seem to quite get it with the DRK. even with hours of training, it seems to be missing something,it doesn't quite get the complete mitigation or attack power i would expect.feels unfinished and unpolished at times.

does this makes any sense?

[Renato]

I feel the same way. As a job, it works fine which is why it's been neglected for so long but compared to the other two tanks it just doesn't "flow" as well. I've been kind of forcing myself to use it lately just wanting to get better with it. But after dropping it for WAR for a while and also dabling a bit in PLD it's easy to point out it's flaws.

It's really noticable doing older content where you really notice how much more you depend on the 62-70 skills. I find myself very rarely using the Power Slash combo and at this point, it's just taking up space on my hotbar. 70 DRK feels a bit better but overall still just feels very clunky. Like I said, it works...you can clear a large majority of content with it if not all but it could be so much better.

[ManuelBravo]

I miss FFXI DRK more power O.o/ while I main tank DRK it shoudl be a tad bit more powerful. That or give us a stance that sacrifices defense for offense. Besides dark side -.-

[Neela]

The worlds firsts ultimate tank was a DRK - the answer he gave after he was asked why he played Drk:“cause I like Drk - it’s fun.“

If a job is good/bad/fun/clunky/what ever... is actually always subjective. Our main tank is also a satisfied Drk

[Tint]

The worlds firsts ultimate tank was a DRK - the answer he gave after he was asked why he played Drk:“cause I like Drk - it’s fun.“

If a job is good/bad/fun/clunky/what ever... is actually always subjective. Our main tank is also a satisfied Drk

Yeah, I like to play DRK too and I am a bit worried about the rework.

I like the resource management with Dark Arts and stuff. However, I miss the clear defined strenghts and weaknesses of the job he had in HW. It was fun to play out your strenght against magical bosses and feel super powerfull, but it was even more fun to overcome your weakness against physical bosses and win the fight.
What I liked most was that he had physical only mechanics with Low Blow and Reprisal proccs. It didn't felt like an afterthought, they put care even in the stuff the job was not good at.

[Awful]

Yeah, I like to play DRK too and I am a bit worried about the rework.

I like the resource management with Dark Arts and stuff. However, I miss the clear defined strenghts and weaknesses of the job he had in HW. It was fun to play out your strenght against magical bosses and feel super powerfull, but it was even more fun to overcome your weakness against physical bosses and win the fight.
What I liked most was that he had physical only mechanics with Low Blow and Reprisal proccs. It didn't felt like an afterthought, they put care even in the stuff the job was not good at.

I share this as well, I'm happy but worried about the Drk rework, as it stands I don't like current Drk which is why I went War for my main as it doesn't feel great compared to HW Drk where we lost so much War and Pld have their unique strengths but Drk does not and suffers from DA spam that makes it feel really bad. Nothing beats Reprisaling a boss and lowering the bosses tankbuster and DA + DM or Shadow Wall and take even less damage, yes TBN is very strong but it doesn't feel great at all to use compared to what Drk used to be.

I hope they give it a unique theme or identity as I don't find SB Drk was well thought out at all or as rewarding as it used to be, yes I can play as well as a War who just has to pair their CDs up with say a MNKs Brotherhood but the payoff is so meager in return to the point where I should just play a War instead. To those who enjoy Drk keep enjoying it and love it but from an old HW Drk main I hope the rework in 5.0 is honestly for the better.