Mages: SMN vs. BLM vs. RDM

[Grafeit]

Having a discussion with some players in the FC regarding mages, they’re arguing that RDM is the leader of the pack by a long shot, with BLM behind RDM, and SMN trailing because of “pet issues” and SMN isn’t really neccisary if you have BLM or RDM.

In fact, the comment they said was:
“SMN has sort of pet issues. It’s a bunch of micromanaging pet stuff with not a ton of payoff. Demi-Bahamut is fun but it takes 10 years t get there. Strongest caster is still RDM with BLM being a tight second, and SMN needing some tweaks and fixes before it competes with the other mages.”

And in response to me saying that in a prolonged fight, I think SMN has a higher potential, he said “I’d like to see the logs that support that.”

He very well may be right, but I don’t want him to be, as SMN is really to only DoT class we have, and I sooo badly want it to be good! (EQ2 Warlock main from back in the day..)

Are SMN no longer king?

[Dualgunner]

SMN no longer bring everything a BLM and a RDM (damage and utility) can. They're still a stronger caster than RDM, but not by such a huge margin as in 4.2-4.3, where RDM was an active hindrance to the party.

As far as logs to support that...tell him to just go look at current leaderboards? 75th Chaos RDM is 600 DPS behind 75th Chaos SMN. Middy has RDM 500 behind SMN at 75th. About 700 behind SMN on 11S Omega at 75th. 390 behind SMN on M/F. 400 behind on Final Omega.

You can look at different percentile ranges but no...no RDM is absolutely not the king of casters. If anything, SMN still has that crown due to its sheer mobility that neither of its peers can match, so teams don't need to adapt strategies due to having a caster when that caster can move like a ranger when it needs to. Not only that but SMN also retains its raise ability.

[Grafeit]

Well, thanks! This helps me understand it better. Not really looking for a “Hah, I told you so!” Kind of thing, but just clarification. He wasn’t so far off I guess l, but neither was I.

The mobility I presume comes from RUIN II being instant, and dots being mostly instant, and their pet dealing damage while they are free to run around? So as far as sustainable DPS, they’re probably the leader, whereas the other mages break away in burst DPS?

[Zerathor]

Well, thanks! This helps me understand it better. Not really looking for a “Hah, I told you so!” Kind of thing, but just clarification. He wasn’t so far off I guess l, but neither was I.

The mobility I presume comes from RUIN II being instant, and dots being mostly instant, and their pet dealing damage while they are free to run around? So as far as sustainable DPS, they’re probably the leader, whereas the other mages break away in burst DPS?

Smn is highest burst, blm is highest sustained steady dps. Rdm is somewhere between. Personal dps wise it's blm>smn>rdm

Rdm and smn do have raises for the party however, as well as mild raid dps buffs.

[Grafeit]

BLM is better sustain even though SMN has all of the DoT’s and no real nukes?

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

BLM is better sustain even though SMN has all of the DoT’s and no real nukes?

SMN has plenty of nukes.

Every ~60s you get 3x Fester via Aetherflow -> full Aethertrail Attunement, allowing Dreadwyrm Trance (instant ruin III and refresh tri disaster plus damage buff while in DWT), ending with Death Flare. After two dreadwyrm trances you have two dreadwyrm aether, allowing you to summon Bahamut, giving you two Akh Morns plus multiple wyrmwaves. It is highly recommended to hold Bahamut until you have Aetherflow ready to use Fester along other ogcds and ruin II to max out the wyrmwave casts.

Fester - 300 pot
Deathflare - 400 pot
Akh Morn - 680 pot

It seems trivial compared to BLM's 540 effective potency on Fire IV and Enochian damage buff at first, but SMN's dots, ruin fillers, pet damage and ogcd bursts add up really fast, especially burst wise.

[Grafeit]

So I guess what I meant by saying “No Nukes” is that BLM hits harder but slower, whereas because of DoT ticks, SMN doesn’t hit as hard but it’s more frequent.

Also, I didn’t realize that’s how SMN player. In low level dungeons I feel like SMN was all about maintaining DoTs and filling with ruin, so I’ve never played SMN past level 41.

Is SMN honestly THAT micromanage-y when it comes to their pet? I honestly never bothered with managing my pet on SMN or SCH, but again, I’ve never even been close to end game.

[Neela]

I would say Blm is more frequent than Smn - Smns are very spiky in their dmg graphs cause of their bursts phases which have to built up before. While Blms "just" switch between fire and ice/thunder to regain mp - changing immediately back to burst after mp-ticks in. if you look at the graphs left one is a random high blm right side a smn:




micromanaging wasn't a thing till the last ifrit-nerf - most smn played with sicfrit from the start or after the the petswap opener.
And I got the feeling that hasn't changed much in the mid/casual playerbase.

The difference nowadays is that advanced player could reach equal or even higher numbers with rudas con-micromanaging or perfect timed rotas in several fights/comps.

But to be honest - micromanaging shouldn't be an argument for playing or not playing sch/smn - they both do pretty okay-ish even on full auto-mode. ^^

[Neela]

edit: smn below 60/70 is like cruising in a Smart... changing to a Ferrari on 60 and a Koeniggsegg on 70. That’s when u got your „Nukes“ and the cls finally starts to make fun

(dbl post by phone <.<)

[Grafeit]

edit: smn below 60/70 is like cruising in a Smart... changing to a Ferrari on 60 and a Koeniggsegg on 70. That’s when u got your „Nukes“ and the cls finally starts to make fun

(dbl post by phone <.<)

Marry me. Please?