[Discussion] A lore forum Discord chat channel!

[Alleluia]

None of that disqualifies him from starting a chatroom. And this isn't a debate topic. This is an announcment that a discord has been created. For goodness' sake. If you hate associating with the guy so much, no one is making you join.

[Anonymoose]

Mooses... Moose... Meece?

Moosen.
"I saw a flock of moosen."

[Ghoulheart]

It really just sounds like the forming of a clique. And Theodric from my very limited even exposure on these forums comes off as aggressively dismissive and condescending of others. Even in the first few pages of this thread. Only time I've seen him stand out prior was in the White Ravens controversy where he tried to silence criticisms by repeating himself over and over how anyone with an opposing opinion to him should "Just quit the game" if they didn't like it. Such a person who's so very emotionally unstable in their bias would not make for a good representative and he should probably take his own advice and

I'd strongly suggest taking a step back and seriously reconsidering priorities in life.

Although I do support his right to make his own lore based discord for him and his friends to be able to discuss lore topics the way they want in a more active environment.

[Alleluia]

Its not an excuse for a clique. It literally just stemmed from idle questioning on my part in another thread: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4830734 Until the last 24 hours I've never interacted with Theodric on a one-to-one basis. There was no agenda other than to create a freaking chatroom that would let people who have a common interest in the lore of ff14 chat to each other in real time and hang out.

Then people, imo, got kinda childish early on in this thread and made it about the guy offering to host the chatroom instead of the chatroom itself. The guy who responded to my inquiry about a lore discord with this:

Not that I'm aware of. I've been toying with the idea of creating one, though that depends on how much interest there is. I'd also want one or two other people to step up and moderate alongside me to form a 'council' of sorts to make decision making less prone to bias as I am of the firm belief that the best moderation comes from a varied team and not one that consists of people who already know each other and are just going to go out of their way to protect their friends.

Which doesn't exactly jive with the shadow-dictator-in-waiting a lot in this thread seem to think he is when it comes to the idea he'd be part of moderating the chatroom he's offering to host.

Guys, join the discord or don't. Whatever. I'm honestly half starting to regret even asking about it in the first place. I didn't realize it was going to result in an attack thread on a fellow poster. Those of you doing it, you outta be embarrassed.

[Theodric]

It isn't a clique, nor is it intended to be one.

If some posters want to see me as an 'idiot', then so be it. All I'll say on that note is that I've attempted to smooth out any issues more than once with certain posters by offering to talk things out with those who have clashed with me in the past. I can't really do much more than that.

If they want to assume the worst about me, then again...so be it. I'll just point out that for all the concern they show for my posting style, I've not once seen those individuals interject and show concern for commentary that is genuinely hurtful - such as calling me an 'idiot' or accusations of me of supporting genocide. I think that speaks for itself.

I don't care about popularity contests. I don't want people to hang off of my every word or agree with everything that I post. In my opinion, that sort of atmosphere doesn't make for a great debate. This is really just a channel intended to discuss the game's lore on a platform that is easy to access on the go. If someone is interested in joining, they're very welcome to. If they're not interested, that's fine too - they're not being forced to.

It's really just that simple. It should not and does not need to be some huge controversy, in other words. By the sounds of it, some of you simply want a 'yes man' who agrees with the majority. With respect, I don't find such an approach well suited to moderation. I don't actually predict any major issues to arise in the Discord itself. If they do, they're be dealt with accordingly - though the chat isn't going to be subject to heavy handed antics. Nobody will be banned for differences in opinion...and nobody is going to be banned for 'wrong think' because they happen to post differently to their brethren.

It's really just intended to be a place for people to discuss a mutual hobby/interest. I really can't stress that enough.

--

Putting all that aside, things have been going pretty smoothly so far and a handful of people have already joined! In about a month, when 4.5 goes live, I shall be celebrating it by hosting a lottery for our members; with the grand prize being a Mog Station mount of their choice.

I just need to find a decent online lottery/random number generator in the meanwhile...suggestions for that are very welcome and appreciated.

[Iscah]

Its not an excuse for a clique. It literally just stemmed from idle questioning on my part in another thread: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4830734 Until the last 24 hours I've never interacted with Theodric on a one-to-one basis. There was no agenda other than to create a freaking chatroom that would let people who have a common interest in the lore of ff14 chat to each other in real time and hang out.

Then people, imo, got kinda childish early on in this thread and made it about the guy offering to host the chatroom instead of the chatroom itself.

I know it began in relation to your question in the other thread - but there isn't a disconnect between setting up a chatroom for a particular audience, and making sure it's run by someone (or a panel of someones) who is regarded well by the majority of people in that audience.

It seems unbalanced, for lack of a better word, for a person who has undeniably divisive opinions (and insists they are fair and reasonable) to step up and declare that they are an excellent choice for moderator - and then establish themself as sole moderator rather than waiting for any further discussion or to form the panel that they themself proposed was necessary to prevent bias.

If it was just me that had issues, and everyone else was fine with it... I'd stay quiet. In fact I probably wouldn't even be here. But when there are a number of regular posters at odds with him, and if this is truly supposed to appeal to everyone on the forum... this is not how you go about it.

If some posters want to see me as an 'idiot', then so be it. All I'll say on that note is that I've attempted to smooth out any issues more than once with certain posters by offering to talk things out with those who have clashed with me in the past. I can't really do much more than that.

If they want to assume the worst about me, then again...so be it. I'll just point out that for all the concern they show for my posting style, I've not once seen those individuals interject and show concern for commentary that is genuinely hurtful - such as calling me an 'idiot' or accusations of me of supporting genocide. I think that speaks for itself.

So because someone else called you an idiot since my last post, and I didn't speak up against it....?

Yes it was uncalled for. No they shouldn't have said that, and I wouldn't have.

And no I am not going to call out every thing that every person says in a public debate. Do I have to look through the entire forum and find every potentially hurtful thing anyone ever said to you, before I can be clear of having doubts cast on my character?

I'm objecting to what you've written in the past because now you are trying to place yourself above the debate. The other people are not.

I am trying very hard to make this only about what you say. About the things and the tone of what you write on the forum.



And yes, I've seen you "offer to talk things out" with people before - by shifting from the public forum to a private conversation. And I don't see why anyone would choose to take you up on that. What would it achieve? What on earth would you talk about that wouldn't involve saying the same things again?

That doesn't sound like a generous offer. That sounds like trying to give the impression of being generous while knowing the person won't want to take you up on it.

Or if you genuinely believe that's a fair thing to offer, think about it. You're offering to resolve someone's discomfort by putting them in an even more uncomfortable, potentially confrontational, one-on-one conversation in the Internet equivalent of a private room instead of out in public where other people can see what's going on.

[Theodric]

We'll just have to agree to disagree, then. There's no reason for anybody to get up in arms over this - and if they're not willing to smooth out any issues and are instead focused on twisting things into being personal, then that's entirely on their shoulders.

Again, this is a board that attracts posters from all over the world and from a variety of different backgrounds and cultures. It isn't unreasonable in my culture/country to take the 'agree to disagree' stance and offer to talk things out. I'm not forcing people to embrace that offer. Yet if they don't take it and continue to assume the worst about me then it's clear they have more interest in sowing the seeds of strife than actually attempting to remedy whatever hangups they have with either myself or my posts.

I'll just highlight, once more, that this is just a Discord channel. It's a very minor thing in the grand scheme of things. I'm terribly sorry that some people are feeling anxious over it, though there isn't really anything that can be done about that. There's a lot of things in my own life that make me anxious - but I push ahead because I'm a firm believer in not letting one's issues win out.

At any rate, the project has gone ahead. Concerns have been noted and addressed so at this point it's just circular arguing. It's very clear that the posters in opposition to this project have no desire to join - and that's perfectly fine. Yet at some point they simply need to concede that this isn't the place for them.

You can't please everybody - and again, most of the concerns regarding bias are unfounded. I've linked profiles on other sites where I've posted about a variety of sites without any issues. I'm more than capable of being objective. If you don't believe that to be the case, fair enough - but let's not pretend much of the critique isn't coming from a 'I DON'T LIKE YOU' perspective.

So with that said, this is likely to be my final post on that particular subject. The project is going ahead and if you don't want to be part of it then I would respectfully ask those unwilling to take a step back. If they're not going to take part themselves, then it shouldn't bother them - because they're not going to participate.

It's not going to lessen the amount of posting/threads on this board either, so that line of concern is also invalid. (I actually made a completely new post recently to foster discussion, so let it not be said that I'm shirking my duties!)

[Alleo]

Sad how this turned from " A Discord for the whole Lore Forum and those who are interested in" and from a post that wanted debate to a "well I will do it anyway, I am going to be sole Moderator and you can join or not, I dont care". If it was no big deal why even start a discussion about the way it should be structured, how it should be lead and wanted us to post our opinions?

Debates always will have people on different sides in it, you will have those that are for it, against it or dont care. Maybe even some that would care if certain things change. If you say that this is something for the whole community then give some ideas but in the end one should wait and see how the community reacts and what the majority wants. Not make yourself a Mod from the very beginning and then dont budge on this when quite some people point out that they might want different ones.

People have tried to show the issues, and some of them could have been resolved but instead it was just done into your channel anyway.

I wish this channel good luck, hopefully it will bring forth interesting discussions, and people dont just stay for the mog station items (which imo should not even be needed if people care about it).

[redheadturk]

And this [the calling Theodric an idiot in this thread] is why I lurk more than post here. Can we just agree that ad hom attacks are a crappy thing to do, no matter how you might feel about the person in question and their views on certain parts of the lore, and take the server for what it is? An attempt to give lore hounds a chance to speak to each other in real time about said lore. Btw, I joined, and it's been a very pleasant experience thus far.

[Alleluia]

Sad how this turned from " A Discord for the whole Lore Forum and those who are interested in" and from a post that wanted debate to a "well I will do it anyway, I am going to be sole Moderator and you can join or not, I dont care". If it was no big deal why even start a discussion about the way it should be structured, how it should be lead and wanted us to post our opinions?

Maybe he, I dunno, thought people could potentially have issues with how moderation on a chatroom worked and wanted to lay out a way it could be impartial from the get go to allay any anxieties. I mean, I personally wouldn't have bothered b/c who would care so much about such a thing right? That'd be silly.

And so far in my experience, for what that might be worth apparently, it is for everyone. Not that that's something people can't just see for themselves.

And this [the calling Theodric an idiot in this thread] is why I lurk more than post here. Can we just agree that ad hom attacks are a crappy thing to do, no matter how you might feel about the person in question and their views on certain parts of the lore, and take the server for what it is? An attempt to give lore hounds a chance to speak to each other in real time about said lore. Btw, I joined, and it's been a very pleasant experience thus far.

This.