getting kicked from end game pfs as soon as I join?

[Sylvina]

Says the person who came into a raid centric discord, dismissed virtually every bit of criticism, whined endlessly about how toxic people were and clearly learned nothing. Yes, indeed, someone needs a reality check. You're simply mistaken as to whom.

And found said discord to be full of children and childish raiders who I have no desire to associate with. I'm an adult with somewhat of a real life and a SOME semblance of perspective. I got COMPLETELY "destroyed" in your pathetic discord for a tiny mistake, which I apologized for afterwards, and your idea that I shot down all "advice" is stupid. Have fun with the kids your age.

Furthermore, the idea that I am wrong that people with a brain and some sense of self in regard to their performance in game dont want to be carried is ridiculous. if people want to be carried it obviously means they don't have at least one of those things.

[HyoMinPark]

And found said discord to be full of children and childish raiders who I have no desire to associate with. I'm an adult with somewhat of a real life and a SOME semblance of perspective. I got COMPLETELY "destroyed" in your pathetic discord for a tiny mistake, which I apologized for afterwards, and your idea that I shot down all "advice" is stupid. Have fun with the kids your age.

There was arguably one individual who could be considered as having gone too far in the situation you are referencing, and that was only after you dismissed any and all of the legitimate advice that he and the others in that discord were giving you. Some people don’t appreciate the advice they’re giving to be completely dismissed with “I know my rotation” and “I’m not a bad player and I won’t have you calling me bad”.

The encounters that were brought up in that discussion all had minute things that could have been improved on, and accepting that you had made rotational errors—even though they were small and honestly quite few—would have been far more graceful than accusing everyone in that channel of calling you a bad player. Everyone makes mistakes, and pointing them out and pointing out that you have made them is not the same as someone calling you bad.

Don’t try to misconstrue what happened in that channel to fit your “tOxIc rAiDeRs” argument. Criticism is not toxicity. Despite how many disagreements I’ve had with you on here, I still attempted to address some of your concerns in a polite manner, and most of the things I said were dismissed by you. The only reason any hostility started being directed towards you was because you started calling the raiders in there names.

[Melichoir]

And found said discord to be full of children and childish raiders who I have no desire to associate with. I'm an adult with somewhat of a real life and a SOME semblance of perspective.

From my experience on being on the web for a while, if you have to sit here and call people children, say things that infer people are just "kids", talk about how adult you are...youre not likely to be all that mature, regardless of your physical age.

If youre an adult, you dont have to explain why youre an adult while denigrating your detractors as children.

Just sayin'.

[KaivaC]

And found said discord to be full of children and childish raiders who I have no desire to associate with. I'm an adult with somewhat of a real life and a SOME semblance of perspective. I got COMPLETELY "destroyed" in your pathetic discord for a tiny mistake, which I apologized for afterwards, and your idea that I shot down all "advice" is stupid. Have fun with the kids your age.

Furthermore, the idea that I am wrong that people with a brain and some sense of self in regard to their performance in game dont want to be carried is ridiculous. if people want to be carried it obviously means they don't have at least one of those things.

I was toying back and forth with deciding whether I should respond, and how I should respond. I've been in many discords, and sometimes, I get into disagreements and heated discussions with members of those discords. Some of them, I have even left. Regardless of the reasons, the one thing I won't do is bring those issues into a public spectrum. In fact, I'd much prefer to mend bridges rather than continuing to just add gasoline to the fire. I don't know what discord you are talking about, and honestly, in this context, it doesn't matter at all.

Whatever happened over discord, needs to stay in that medium. If you have beef with individuals outside of the forums, it's not something you bring here into the forums. That thread you made, and the responses you've made today - sugarcoat it all you want, but these were shots taken at specific individuals over something that happened away from the forums. This is not the place for stuff like this. Maybe you feel justified in doing things, maybe you want to one them up, or maybe you are acting out of the goodness of your heart - I don't really care about the reasonings, but the way you worded things and how you've been responding is not how you accomplish this goal, nor is labeling a group of people as childish. If this is about criticism over something that you asked for, whether you like it or not, you still don't bring your complaints about the feedback to the forums.

Either forgive and forget, or take this issue you have with somebody elsewhere. Seriously. Follow the words you are saying. Don't do something childish like bringing the feud here.

[Dirwen]

Either forgive and forget, or take this issue you have with somebody elsewhere. Seriously. Follow the words you are saying. Don't do something childish like bringing the feud here.

I would love it if most people followed this advice IRL but it ain't happening so expecting it online even more so. Some people want respect without giving it in return.

[Penthea]

I was toying back and forth with deciding whether I should respond, and how I should respond. I've been in many discords, and sometimes, I get into disagreements and heated discussions with members of those discords. Some of them, I have even left. Regardless of the reasons, the one thing I won't do is bring those issues into a public spectrum. In fact, I'd much prefer to mend bridges rather than continuing to just add gasoline to the fire. I don't know what discord you are talking about, and honestly, in this context, it doesn't matter at all.

Whatever happened over discord, needs to stay in that medium. If you have beef with individuals outside of the forums, it's not something you bring here into the forums.

Either forgive and forget, or take this issue you have with somebody elsewhere. Seriously. Follow the words you are saying. Don't do something childish like bringing the feud here.

Do correct me if I'm wrong because I only had a very quick look. This thread has a lot of pages with very long posts, but it appears the first instance of someone bringing beef from elsewhere related to Sylvina is this post.

If I am correct you'll see that Sylvina was not the one who first brought up personal external beef and pointed fingers at specific people. I am not condoning their behaviour or what we see in their posts, but at this point I'm starting to feel like this situation is turning into a bit of a bandwagon. They're being cornered in two threads now.

If what happened in that discord is true, then yes they definitely need to approach the game differently. But if they are accused of something they didn't do, and people upvote that accusation, it's only going to convince them even more that their poor opinion of a certain type of player is valid. It will not make them reflect on how they can improve their performance and attitude. It will only fuel their already bitter stance towards raiding.

If I am wrong about who started bringing in personal beef and Sylvina did start it, well then they got what was coming to them.

All this being said Kaiva is certainly correct that pointing fingers at personal beef that started outside the forums and the game is not something anyone should do. What happens outside of SE's games and forums should stay outside of SE's games and forums.

[KaivaC]

Do correct me if I'm wrong because I only had a very quick look. This thread has a lot of pages with very long posts, but it appears the first instance of someone bringing beef from elsewhere related to Sylvina is this post.

If I am correct you'll see that Sylvina was not the one who first brought up personal external beef and pointed fingers at specific people. I am not condoning their behaviour or what we see in their posts, but at this point I'm starting to feel like this situation is turning into a bit of a bandwagon. They're being cornered in two threads now.

If what happened in that discord is true, then yes they definitely need to approach the game differently. But if they are accused of something they didn't do, and people upvote that accusation, it's only going to convince them even more that their poor opinion of a certain type of player is valid. It will not make them reflect on how they can improve their performance and attitude. It will only fuel their already bitter stance towards raiding.

If I am wrong about who started bringing in personal beef and Sylvina did start it, well then they got what was coming to them.

All this being said Kaiva is certainly correct that pointing fingers at personal beef that started outside the forums and the game is not something anyone should do. What happens outside of SE's games and forums should stay outside of SE's games and forums.

Just going by what I have seen, when all of this blew up, the post in question that was responded to might have been - again, might have been - taken as a hypocritical statement, given what may have happened outside of the forum. I don't know, I'm just going by what I see and posting how I perceived things. Regardless of who was right or wrong, I have played with players such as Bourne and Hyo, and they don't act without provocation. But I don't speak for them, just going by experiences with them. I'm probably going to stop responding after this post, though, because as you said, perhaps Sylvina is being cornered in multiple threads and it's not really an issue that I can really involve myself with given that I'm on the outside looking in. Whatever the case, hopefully the dispute is dealt with in private where it started.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Do correct me if I'm wrong because I only had a very quick look. This thread has a lot of pages with very long posts, but it appears the first instance of someone bringing beef from elsewhere related to Sylvina is this post.

If I am correct you'll see that Sylvina was not the one who first brought up personal external beef and pointed fingers at specific people. I am not condoning their behaviour or what we see in their posts, but at this point I'm starting to feel like this situation is turning into a bit of a bandwagon. They're being cornered in two threads now.

If what happened in that discord is true, then yes they definitely need to approach the game differently. But if they are accused of something they didn't do, and people upvote that accusation, it's only going to convince them even more that their poor opinion of a certain type of player is valid. It will not make them reflect on how they can improve their performance and attitude. It will only fuel their already bitter stance towards raiding.

If I am wrong about who started bringing in personal beef and Sylvina did start it, well then they got what was coming to them.

All this being said Kaiva is certainly correct that pointing fingers at personal beef that started outside the forums and the game is not something anyone should do. What happens outside of SE's games and forums should stay outside of SE's games and forums.

I'll acknowledge lighting the proverbial match, so to speak. It simply irked me she had the audacity to slam the raid community after people from said community spent a good hour or two trying to help her all. And because she wasn't coddled, this is the end result. There even was an instance where someone went a bit too far and made it more personal, but the supposedly "toxic" community outright told them to knock it off. Ironically, all this drama started because she came into that discord and asked them "I keep parsing grey. What am I doing wrong?"

The "upvoting" is entirely justified. And while I won't publicly post quotes, they are still in the discord for anyone to find.

[Penthea]

I'll acknowledge lighting the proverbial match, so to speak. It simply irked me she had the audacity to slam the raid community after people from said community spent a good hour or two trying to help her all. And because she wasn't coddled, this is the end result.

Yea I totally get where you're coming from, and I don't entirely disagree with you calling out someone on their crap.

It just didn't sit right with me when Sylvina got accused and criticised for introducing this particular drama to the forum when they did not, especially after seeing what a bandwagon the situation is becoming. I'd rather we keep the criticisms we have for this player strictly to the things they did. They did say some things targeted at specific people, but it wasn't without direct provocation. Had you not mentioned that discord group it's possible that they wouldn't have had either.

The "upvoting" is entirely justified

Sorry but it's not when the main point of the post was "keep your personal targeted beef where it started and don't drag it in here" when it was someone else who brought it up first.

No matter how true it is that Sylvina needs to change their attitude towards raiding, it doesn't make it okay to blame them for things they didn't do.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Yea I totally get where you're coming from, and I don't entirely disagree with you calling out someone on their crap.

It just didn't sit right with me when Sylvina got accused and criticised for introducing this particular drama to the forum when they did not, especially after seeing what a bandwagon the situation is becoming. I'd rather we keep the criticisms we have for this player strictly to the things they did. They did say some things targeted at specific people, but it wasn't without direct provocation. Had you not mentioned that discord group it's possible that they wouldn't have had either.



Sorry but it's not when the main point of the post was "keep your personal targeted beef where it started and don't drag it in here" when it was someone else who brought it up first.

No matter how true it is that Sylvina needs to change their attitude towards raiding, it doesn't make it okay to blame them for things they didn't do.

Yes, however what prompted my response was them taking potshots at a community who actively tried to help them. Had they not done that, I would have no provocation to respond as I did. It's a don't throw rocks in glass houses sort of deal.

And to be honest, this all escalated because of their adult nonsense thread. It's unlikely they would have gotten half the traction they did if they hadn't turned themselves into a meme.