Idea to make old content not feel as hollow.

[Rollout]

So, I know that part of the process when adding new skills in expansions is cutting down on previous skills that aren't very relevant anymore. But this has the adverse effect of making old content feel very hollow and some of the hard content impossible to do without unsyncing it.

So, I had this thought... what if your job crystal determined what skills you had, depending on your level? When you're between level 1 and level 60, you're job crystal is "synced" to what it would have been like in Heavensward, with all of the skills that they had during that expansion. Once you're past that, your job upgrades to a Stormblood crystal and some of the older skills are removed or altered in favor of the new skills.

Or, something like that... it's just a thought that I had, regarding how boring old content feels sometimes because a lot of the low level skills being removed or homogenized for the sake of the end game.

[Kabooa]

There are definitely examples in Stormblood where an ability / action could have been 'upgraded' instead of removed and replaced with the contemporary.

Brutal Swing for Warriors, for example.

[DRKoftheAzure]

Level Sync+, where you sync down to the content level but you get keep/use all of the abilities you have learned past level that you synced down to.

[MistakeNot]

The problem is that many of the important abilities for each job are only obtained at level cap, combined with the fact that the developers try to keep the total number of abilities down to a managable number.

This means that each time the level cap is raised and new abilities added, some of the old abilities are removed - and low levels get boring because you have only a few buttons to press and none of the iconic abilities for that job get available until much later.
Having high-level abilities remain available when level-synced only improves the situation for those who have already reached high levels, but not for those who are still leveling.

A much better solution in my mind is to basically front load abilities.
All the abilities needed for the basic rotation for a job should become available early, as well as several of the more iconic abilities. Then as you level some of these can get replaced by upgraded versions of abilities - because some changes in abilites as you level is needed for it to feel worthwhile - as well as some new abilities.

That you currently have to wait until level cap until you get your full rotation for many jobs is simply bad design in my view.

[DRKoftheAzure]

The problem is that many of the important abilities for each job are only obtained at level cap, combined with the fact that the developers try to keep the total number of abilities down to a managable number.

This means that each time the level cap is raised and new abilities added, some of the old abilities are removed - and low levels get boring because you have only a few buttons to press and none of the iconic abilities for that job get available until much later.
Having high-level abilities remain available when level-synced only improves the situation for those who have already reached high levels, but not for those who are still leveling.

A much better solution in my mind is to basically front load abilities.
All the abilities needed for the basic rotation for a job should become available early, as well as several of the more iconic abilities. Then as you level some of these can get replaced by upgraded versions of abilities - because some changes in abilites as you level is needed for it to feel worthwhile - as well as some new abilities.

That you currently have to wait until level cap until you get your full rotation for many jobs is simply bad design in my view.

I didn't think about that. Kinda reminds me of how they did with BLM/WHM rework with their spells at Stormblood launch, even though I don't play BLM/WHM... And it can work for Physical based jobs as seen with BRD, which I did try out but I do NOT like the RNG procs and I also don't like Iron Jaws since I think AoE but instead it's single target...

[Sandpark]

So progression means what then?
The standard enemies still die easily and are light on mechanics at lower level. I don't see how having 10 extra skills make killing them more fun, it just makes it even easier to kill them while being flashier.
The standard enemies are too easy to kill already and easy to dodge with 1-2 skills at most. Even the bosses until around level 35 have very few mechanics to deal with.
What happens if normal enemies all got more powerful and got say Shinryu number of mechanics early on?
The world becomes a more dangerous place, maybe too dangerous for people to solo any more, which unless trusts are really good. There will be issues with people getting to max level the first time through when you always need people to group with.

Progression exists, even the boring parts so that you feel you are always headed for bigger and better things. If all the cool skills and cool bosses and cool enemies are available right out of the gate or front loaded. What does one have to look forward to anymore? Maybe XIV did the Elder Scrolls Online Route and have levels stop at level 50 to keep old content relevant? That did not work because they introduced Champion Points due to people wanting progression, which is characters keep getting stronger perpetually.But then casual players started feeling like they could never catch up in power with people who play more. So they implemented a CP cap to level the playing field, which is ilevel but for attributes and skills, that was not enough so they add ilevel, I mean CP cap gear.

Every mmo has some sort of solution to trying to keep content relevant and keep a level playing field. But it is all just band-aid fixes for what the original problem was...

Levels are the problem.
Time spent is not fair and fair at the same time.
Someone who invest alot of time in a game should be able to feel more powerful as time goes on. It's not fair to these type of players when a game puts caps on everything.
Someone who invest minimal time wants to be able to access all the content but with progression there is a time table. It's not fair to these types of players when there is no cap on everything.

So to solve the real problem is to look back at the source.
Old content(static) can not stay relevant and fair as long as progress(changing or levels and ilevels) has a moving goalpost.
I call things like levels and ilevels, or champion points and CP cap, ceilings or the so called moving goal post.

I realize I veered off the topic which is someone here said they want skills front loaded. But front loading job skills won't fix much just make it flashier.

The biggest roadblock for keeping content relevant and making the game exciting throughout is keeping the goalpost static. The solution proposed before is sync this, sync that, upscale this, or downscale that. But syncing is trying to put players together in a box regardless of how long they have played or how much they invested.

I propose:

1. No more levels, they get omitted.
2. All job skills be front loaded after the first few hours of introductory to systems.
3. The world enemies are tinkered to be challenging for a light party, difficult to be soloed.
4. Trust NPC can be used in all content so when you cannot get people, you can still advance.
5. All dungeons and raids and anything instanced based is level 0 just like the character.
6. All quests are level 0 as well, except MSQ must remain being done in order.
7. Ilevel is omitted gear is level 0 just like quest and characters.
8. Mounts are available at level 0 provided you beat the content/quest to unlock it.
9. All zones are level 0 as well.
10. All content is accessible as soon as you start the game provided you unlocked it via quest or content.

Pros:

• With no more levels, experiencing all the good stuff is not locked behind progression.
• Everyone has the same skills, the skills themselves can level up as you progress.
• With the removal of ilevel now the true endgame is what everyone jokes about, glamour.
• Unless it is MSQ which must be done in order, with sidequest being level 0, no more worries on if we are the correct level or not.
• Tired of needing to grind to access a dungeon or raid? Now you can do it right out of the gate provided you unlocked it.
• Tired of waiting until level 20 for a mount? Now you can get one immediately if you quest it.

Damn Sandpark, you just removed all the progression. What is the point of playing now or having something to look forward to?

All though you can access everything out of the gate provided you unlocked it in MSQ and sidequest or other content. All the skills, traits, mounts, and stuff have their own level and experience bar.
Blizzard> Blizzard 2>Blizzard 3 level up from 1-70 experiencing potency increases as they increase in level.
Cure> Cure 2> Cure 3 level up from 1-70 experiencing potency increases as they increase in level.

So you have your entire toolkit immediately but you need to level each skill to become powerful.

Wait, that sounds a lot like XIV 1.0 or FFXI.
Not really, this version functions more similar to a standard XP bar with no randomness. You use it, it gains experience, use it enough, it levels up.

So now in this form, no one is left behind or has to worry about if they can group with a starting friend in certain content. You don't have veterans saying it sucks I can't use my entire toolkit. There is no 300 hour timegate for people wanting to reach max level. The biggest timegate is the MSQ and massive experience needed to level to see new places. Now you do the MSQ, with no worry about if you will have enough experience. If you can complete the MSQ, you will get to everyone else sooner.

[Jandor]

Idea to make old content not feel as hollow.

Either:

Upsync: Instead of us going down, enemies are synced up to our current level cap.

Semi-sync: Only our power/gear is synced, our level/abilities stay the same.

[Kabooa]

[B]Damn Sandpark, you just removed all the progression. What is the point of playing now or having something to look forward to?.

No, I don't want to play Elder Scrolls Online.

Nothing sucked more than getting partied with people who didn't have their skills "max rank".

[DRKoftheAzure]

Damn Sandpark, you just removed all the progression. What is the point of playing now or having something to look forward to?

All though you can access everything out of the gate provided you unlocked it in MSQ and sidequest or other content. All the skills, traits, mounts, and stuff have their own level and experience bar.
Blizzard> Blizzard 2>Blizzard 3 level up from 1-70 experiencing potency increases as they increase in level.
Cure> Cure 2> Cure 3 level up from 1-70 experiencing potency increases as they increase in level.

So you have your entire toolkit immediately but you need to level each skill to become powerful.

Wait, that sounds a lot like XIV 1.0 or FFXI.
Not really, this version functions more similar to a standard XP bar with no randomness. You use it, it gains experience, use it enough, it levels up.

So now in this form, no one is left behind or has to worry about if they can group with a starting friend in certain content. You don't have veterans saying it sucks I can't use my entire toolkit. There is no 300 hour timegate for people wanting to reach max level. The biggest timegate is the MSQ and massive experience needed to level to see new places. Now you do the MSQ, with no worry about if you will have enough experience. If you can complete the MSQ, you will get to everyone else sooner.

I immediately think of Sword Art Online series, yes this includes everthing from the light novels to the games of the same name...

[Shurrikhan]

The problem is that many of the important abilities for each job are only obtained at level cap, combined with the fact that the developers try to keep the total number of abilities down to a managable number.

This means that each time the level cap is raised and new abilities added, some of the old abilities are removed - and low levels get boring because you have only a few buttons to press and none of the iconic abilities for that job get available until much later.
Having high-level abilities remain available when level-synced only improves the situation for those who have already reached high levels, but not for those who are still leveling.

A much better solution in my mind is to basically front load abilities.
All the abilities needed for the basic rotation for a job should become available early, as well as several of the more iconic abilities. Then as you level some of these can get replaced by upgraded versions of abilities - because some changes in abilities as you level is needed for it to feel worthwhile - as well as some new abilities.

That you currently have to wait until level cap until you get your full rotation for many jobs is simply bad design in my view.

The simplest metric for successful gameplay progression imo is just "is there something new to master"? If the addition doesn't add some new aspect or perspective to gameplay, it's largely worthless from a point of view of gameplay progression.

Full Thrust arrived being worth to gameplay something only because Life Surge existed before it and through contexts where you'd want to bank the combo (which are also sadly far and few between in early game). Elusive Jump is brilliant in the context of fighting for FATE credit, and feels mostly worthless otherwise. As the only things to stun are things you really should not (providing free mob downtime if you simply dodge), Dive is sadly much the same. Disembowel used to be worth to gameplay something because it added enough damage to be optimal at certain mid-length breakpoints, especially when doing leveling dungeons with another Piercing DPS. Impulse Drive, on the other hand, was never really of gameplay value until Disembowel, even when its spam was 5 ppgcd more efficient than TT-VT; it simply wasn't enough and offered no meaningful goal for integration. Vorpal Thrust without Life Surge is likewise of marginal benefit outside of player-group-to-mob-group combat; there's no risk of Overkill to mitigate. There's no lesson to learn or goal of usage there; you just cycle 1-2-1-2-1-2.

Having a fleshed out and a cohesive kit obviously should occur earlier, too. Almost all of what we have (or have had) by level 50 I'd argue we should have by 28-42, depending on what and for whom. Most of the true basics I'd even argue we should have by level 15, or at least enough to pose real goals of gameflow and considerations for combat that draws more detail from the context of a fight and ensures there's at least some minimum enjoyable depth even in the stalest situations. Cross-class offered a bit of that in the past, with, say, Venomous Bite and Raging Strikes and Haymaker and Fracture and Straight Shot all available as damage increases in leveling Lancer, but those didn't contribute to the considerations of the class itself and would eventually, mostly, go to waste. If the job doesn't have enough considerations by the end to have offered something new, something more -- by toolkit or context -- every step of the way, as quickly as most fairly decent players are to have learned the one before, then it's lacking. It could have "too many buttons" and still feel lacking just for that.