Late to the BLU Party

[jon041065]

If anything the design philosophy should be to make jobs like this "Advanced Jobs", with additional content and hurdles to clear before being able to bring them into the full game, not "Limited Jobs", where they are just restricted from the full game arbitrarily, and (for now) permanently.

SO MUCH THIS!

[Musashidon]

Even if it does reach level cap sometime doens't mean the devs will allow it in raids.

they specifically designed blu to be op in raids and such so if they did reach lvl cap that would be a correct statement but i am saying i believe more hate is on it being stuck at lvl 50 and not able to hit lvl 70 and not at the idea that it's not allowed into end game content like raids/ex primals.

the compromise is allowed it to hit lvl cap so it can do maps/hunts with the rest while also being able to other side stuff at max lvl but not be allowed to enter the end game raiding/ primal scene to make most people happy.

[Beckett]

Are people just forgetting Crafting/Gathering jobs? Those are designed primarily for solo play; you don't get in a party to go fishing, and the only time crafters have to party up is for Company crafts (for which they literally just stand there so a project can progress). Where is all the outrage that these classes go "against the spirit of MMORPGs" because they are solo experiences?

That's weird, there's no /s. When you say something so utterly wrong, it's usually good form to put a /s at the end, since it's hard to read tone in text.

Yes, yes I am comparing the two. Because just as DoH and DoL are separate from DoW and DoM, so are these new Limited Jobs. It's its own thing, not to be lumped in with DPS/Healer/Tank.

Hahaha, you were serious?! Nobody spent half a decade thinking about how much they were looking forward to playing Carpenter with their raid team. Everyone expected that, if they were to release Blue Mage, it would be playable in all normal content. Also, not that it matters much, but the devs literally called BLU a Ranged DPS, so saying it can't be lumped into the normal categories is straight up wrong.

Your argument seems to be, "Solo classes can still work and be entertaining in an MMO." and that's fair. People can absolutely have fun playing solo classes, despite this being a mutliplayer game. But the way you're presenting the argument completely ignores why people would be upset that BLU, specifically, is being made a solo job.

[Andevom]

I mean if you really want to get into it, every job has suffered sweeping changes to fit into the game. White Mage, Scholar, Black Mage, all of them. Still, (increasing amounts of) people are still playing FFXIV, so those design choices can't be as hated as some would like to make you believe.

So if Blue Mage comes out, but a ton of people don't start leaving the game, would you concede that it wasn't as big a misstep as people are making it out to be?

[jon041065]

they specifically designed blu to be op in raids and such so if they did reach lvl cap that would be a correct statement but i am saying i believe more hate is on it being stuck at lvl 50 and not able to hit lvl 70 and not at the idea that it's not allowed into end game content like raids/ex primals.

the compromise is allowed it to hit lvl cap so it can do maps/hunts with the rest while also being able to other side stuff at max lvl but not be allowed to enter the end game raiding/ primal scene to make most people happy.

Well you haven't been understanding what our side wants then if that's what you believe and that would be a compromise but would only put a small dent into the backlash. It would take blue mage being a full job OR even the announcement that they will be working towards it and have it done in time for the 6.0 expac. We want a FULL job that can do all the content like the other 15 jobs already in the game.

So if Blue Mage comes out, but a ton of people don't start leaving the game, would you concede that it wasn't as big a misstep as people are making it out to be?

People are already leaving and it's also driving away others from returning or trying out the game. We don't know how many but I can say that's true for myself, my friends that were already playing, friends that might have returned, and some that I was trying to bring over from WoW.

no i have, been the problem is you think a majority of players raid. the backlash has been very minor its been 10 days now and most the threads are the same people saying the same thing in the same circle. when housing got change it got 100 page thread in like a day in a half there isn't a huge backlash and like i said from what i have seen in the threads more people are mad its lvl 50 than not allowed in current end game.

I have yet to see people on my side claim that the majority of players want to raid. This backlash is from more than just raiders. You know that right? A lot of people love blue mage and want to use it in the FULL game. As I told the other poster, there have been people already quitting the game over this and moving onto something else. So some posters on our side are just gone. Also, both sides have been repeating a lot of the same points. Don't act like it's just our side.

[Musashidon]

Well you haven't been understanding what our side wants then if that's what you believe and that would be a compromise but would only put a small dent into the backlash. It would take blue mage being a full job OR even the announcement that they will be working towards it and have it done in time for the 6.0 expac.

no i have, been the problem is you think a majority of players raid. the backlash has been very minor its been 10 days now and most the threads are the same people saying the same thing in the same circle. when housing got change it got 100 page thread in like a day in a half there isn't a huge backlash and like i said from what i have seen in the threads more people are mad its lvl 50 than not allowed in current end game.

I have yet to see people on my side claim that the majority of players want to raid. This backlash is from more than just raiders. You know that right? A lot of people love blue mage and want to use it in the FULL game. As I told the other poster, there have been people already quitting the game over this and moving onto something else. So some posters on our side are just gone. Also, both sides have been repeating a lot of the same points. Don't act like it's just our side.

i said both saids are just going back in forth that is what is fake inflating the threads and still they aren't all that large to begin with compared to real backlashes that have happened before.

yes i understand more than raiders want to use blu that is why it being lvl 70 but locked out of raids will fix the issue due to more just want to hit current max lvl.

people quit in 2.0 over being able to jump AND over the grass particles. saying someone quit over something or a few people quit doesn't mean there should be alarm initially there needs to be more than that as people quit over smn or the game being super easy/gear progression what makes this one bigger? is it the fact this time is affects specifically you on a topic you actually care about?

Where did I give you the impression i want it behind content? It should never have to catch up to begin with. We simply are paying to beta test a new job for 3-6 months then there is no guartees when it/if it get raised by time 5.0 hits.

you never gave that impression is was just a question. do you want it to be able to do all content is it unacceptable to be locked out of anything at all? i keep hearing how everyone wants that and that's the only option but in the threads most complaints aren't its locked out of raids its that its locked to lvl 50

also it will be allowed in 24 man raids it will be doing crystal tower. so once (if ever) it gets lvl 60 it can do void ark. same with ivalice (unless its this expansion)

also i do agree it should be allowed in HOH and POTD. that's solo content that blu would excel well in.

[Inoch]

Are people just forgetting Crafting/Gathering jobs? Those are designed primarily for solo play; you don't get in a party to go fishing, and the only time crafters have to party up is for Company crafts (for which they literally just stand there so a project can progress). Where is all the outrage that these classes go "against the spirit of MMORPGs" because they are solo experiences?

Oh come on! Did you just compare a crafter/gatherer with a DoM job? Cause that is so silly.
You can't even compare that.

Are you seriously comparing gatherers/crafters with battle jobs?
Yes, you can play these classes solo, but they weren't implemented in the game with the thought of being limited to solo play. You can gather items and sell them on the market board, making someone else happy with giving them the item they want. You can purchase items from the market board that others crafted / gathered. You can trade with others. You can help the battle classes getting better equipment, for example when a new raid tier is released and all the raiders want to get a higher item level with crafter gear. And you can't progress in this game with only playing crafters / gatheres. You still need your battle class to get through the story. And the battle classes are the main point of this game, not the crafters / gatheres, they are more on the support side, helping you with getting equipment / money / glamour or whatever.
But what is the purpose of BLU? It simply doesn't have one if it stays limited forever. Why get all these great skills from enemies if you can only use them on low level unimportant mobs? You can't complete the story with it because of the level cap. You can't enter palace of the dead or heaven on high (as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong). You can't raid. There isn't even a reason for bringing a BLU in pony farming groups ( for example), why bother with a level 50 BLU when you can simply take a level 80 BLM? Sure you can do that "for fun", but that still is only possible if your team mates agree and don't kick you.
Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of getting my skills from enemies and not just by level up. But if I get these skills, I want to use them. I think currently it looks like this will happen: people will either ignore the job from the start or get all the skills and then don't touch BLU again until new skills for it are released, because they can only use it for content they already did 394834 times. Of course this statement is a bit extreme, but I think it's a possibility.

+1

[Andevom]

Your argument seems to be, "Solo classes can still work and be entertaining in an MMO." and that's fair. People can absolutely have fun playing solo classes, despite this being a mutliplayer game. But the way you're presenting the argument completely ignores why people would be upset that BLU, specifically, is being made a solo job.

The argument: Solo experiences go against the philosophy of an MMORPG.
My point: There are existing solo experiences in the game that do not harm the integrity of an MMORPG.

I completely understand why people are upset at how BLU is being implemented. They want it to be a DoM, I get it. I, personally, think the way its being implemented is fine and makes sense in the context of the job. If you don't like how I framed my argument, maybe the argument I'm responding to isn't framed well itself?

[Mibgestalt]

So if Blue Mage comes out, but a ton of people don't start leaving the game, would you concede that it wasn't as big a misstep as people are making it out to be?

No? You're picking a single sentence out of what I said in regards to your post and only focusing on that is pretty disingenuous, and makes it seem like you don't really have anything to say on my other points, but I'll humor you.

I don't think most people consider it a "huge misstep". I don't think that many people considered RDM or SMN a "huge misstep", you made that claim, not me. The thing is, people that love FFXIV are probably going to play FFXIV anyway. People that love Blue Mage are probably going to play Blue Mage anyway. However, that doesn't change that they feel like the limitations placed on Blue Mage are unacceptable, or that they're not a missed opportunity. Also, unlike RDM or SMN or any other job, the limitations placed on Blue Mage will continue to affect its development and relationship with the content in the game moving forward, so I doubt it will ever "die down" completely.

I could make an equally (pointless) question to you in return, even though it's just as disingenuous. If Blue Mage comes out and its shown not to increase the playerbase over a normal content patch, or retain the playerbase longterm, would you concede that Blue Mage was a failure? If this solo design proves no more valuable to the game that a normal job? See, it's not really a meaningful metric, but you're the one who honed in on missteps and reaction as a metric of value.

[Inoch]

well why are you so hung up on NGP?

You're the one that brought up NGP. But truth be told there is no content for BLU to do after they got their spells and done the solo instance, again falls down to incentives. Even if BLU can take part in NGP there is no incentives to do it.

like i said a few people say oh its cant raid i hate blu! but is that really everyone? a lot of the blu hate is how low lvl it's stuck at and that is all pure speculation it could be stuck at lvl 50 just til patch 4.5 2 then get lvl 60 and then in may get bumped to 70 right before expansion.

That's really wishful thinking and frankly naive until SE correct us or gives a roadmap.
People aren't (sure some is) that it can't raid but people want to bring BLU, their new main to:
- roulettes without being forced to PF
- 24 man raid
- pvp
- potd
- hoh
- whatever we get in 5.x

I can go on

so here's for you. do you want blu to stay behind or do you want it to catch up? are you specifically upset its not allowed in raid content?

Where did I give you the impression i want it behind content? It should never have to catch up to begin with. We simply are paying to beta test a new job for 3-6 months then there is no guartees when it/if it get raised by time 5.0 hits.

just think of it like a side-activity
A traditional blue mage was never going to make it in as a standard job.

FFXI says hello. It works perfectly fine there. Yes it two different MMOs but saying it can't fit in XIV is a bullshit excuse tbf. Yoshida simply decided it wasn't good enough for his game. Of course they can adjust it to make it fit and balance, they just didn't want to.