Late to the BLU Party

[Andevom]

Are people just forgetting Crafting/Gathering jobs? Those are designed primarily for solo play; you don't get in a party to go fishing, and the only time crafters have to party up is for Company crafts (for which they literally just stand there so a project can progress). Where is all the outrage that these classes go "against the spirit of MMORPGs" because they are solo experiences?

[supaiku]

Are people just forgetting Crafting/Gathering jobs? Those are designed primarily for solo play; you don't get in a party to go fishing, and the only time crafters have to party up is for Company crafts (for which they literally just stand there so a project can progress). Where is all the outrage that these classes go "against the spirit of MMORPGs" because they are solo experiences?

Are you seriously comparing gatherers/crafters with battle jobs?
Yes, you can play these classes solo, but they weren't implemented in the game with the thought of being limited to solo play. You can gather items and sell them on the market board, making someone else happy with giving them the item they want. You can purchase items from the market board that others crafted / gathered. You can trade with others. You can help the battle classes getting better equipment, for example when a new raid tier is released and all the raiders want to get a higher item level with crafter gear. And you can't progress in this game with only playing crafters / gatheres. You still need your battle class to get through the story. And the battle classes are the main point of this game, not the crafters / gatheres, they are more on the support side, helping you with getting equipment / money / glamour or whatever.
But what is the purpose of BLU? It simply doesn't have one if it stays limited forever. Why get all these great skills from enemies if you can only use them on low level unimportant mobs? You can't complete the story with it because of the level cap. You can't enter palace of the dead or heaven on high (as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong). You can't raid. There isn't even a reason for bringing a BLU in pony farming groups ( for example), why bother with a level 50 BLU when you can simply take a level 80 BLM? Sure you can do that "for fun", but that still is only possible if your team mates agree and don't kick you.
Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of getting my skills from enemies and not just by level up. But if I get these skills, I want to use them. I think currently it looks like this will happen: people will either ignore the job from the start or get all the skills and then don't touch BLU again until new skills for it are released, because they can only use it for content they already did 394834 times. Of course this statement is a bit extreme, but I think it's a possibility.

[Andevom]

Are you seriously comparing gatherers/crafters with battle jobs?

Yes, yes I am comparing the two. Because just as DoH and DoL are separate from DoW and DoM, so are these new Limited Jobs. It's its own thing, not to be lumped in with DPS/Healer/Tank.

Yes, you can play these classes solo, but they weren't implemented in the game with the thought of being limited to solo play. You can gather items and sell them on the market board, making someone else happy with giving them the item they want. You can purchase items from the market board that others crafted / gathered. You can trade with others. You can help the battle classes getting better equipment, for example when a new raid tier is released and all the raiders want to get a higher item level with crafter gear.

Sure, you can do all of those things. But every example you just listed is not required to progress in those classes. You don't have to sell a single crafted or gathered item to gain experience or do quests for any of them.

And you can't progress in this game with only playing crafters / gatheres. You still need your battle class to get through the story. And the battle classes are the main point of this game, not the crafters / gatheres, they are more on the support side, helping you with getting equipment / money / glamour or whatever.

So you can't use BLU to progress in the story either. I don't really see the problem there, since my comparison here is of other jobs where you can't do that either. It's possible it exists, but I haven't seen a trove of posts where people are complaining they can't have their Botanist go through the entire main scenario. That's what my point is, to not lump it in with DoW and DoM.

But what is the purpose of BLU? It simply doesn't have one if it stays limited forever. Why get all these great skills from enemies if you can only use them on low level unimportant mobs? You can't complete the story with it because of the level cap. You can't enter palace of the dead or heaven on high (as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong). You can't raid. There isn't even a reason for bringing a BLU in pony farming groups ( for example), why bother with a level 50 BLU when you can simply take a level 80 BLM? Sure you can do that "for fun", but that still is only possible if your team mates agree and don't kick you.

The purpose *is* to have fun. Obviously, I think this concept has a lot of potential to be fun in its own way. Maybe my threshold for being entertained is easy to meet, I don't know. The job sounds like it does what Blue Mage is supposed to do. I don't get myself hot and bothered over not being able to take it into that other content, because I have other avenues to get into those should I wish.

But let's think on content itself for a moment. Raids, for example, are very little about the unique qualities of each job and are mostly about the unique qualities of the fights themselves. That's built out of necessity, because in theory, each job should be able to succeed in those situations. To me, it's refreshing that SE is thinking about developing job-specific content where the emphasis is on your character's abilities. I don't see how that works if you have a party of diverse jobs.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of getting my skills from enemies and not just by level up. But if I get these skills, I want to use them. I think currently it looks like this will happen: people will either ignore the job from the start or get all the skills and then don't touch BLU again until new skills for it are released, because they can only use it for content they already did 394834 times. Of course this statement is a bit extreme, but I think it's a possibility.

You will get to use all those neat abilities, but apparently not in the way you want. I still think it's far too soon to pass judgment since we don't even know fully what the content BLU does will be like.

[Inoch]

Are people just forgetting Crafting/Gathering jobs? Those are designed primarily for solo play; you don't get in a party to go fishing, and the only time crafters have to party up is for Company crafts (for which they literally just stand there so a project can progress). Where is all the outrage that these classes go "against the spirit of MMORPGs" because they are solo experiences?

Oh come on! Did you just compare a crafter/gatherer with a DoM job? Cause that is so silly.
You can't even compare that.

Are you seriously comparing gatherers/crafters with battle jobs?
Yes, you can play these classes solo, but they weren't implemented in the game with the thought of being limited to solo play. You can gather items and sell them on the market board, making someone else happy with giving them the item they want. You can purchase items from the market board that others crafted / gathered. You can trade with others. You can help the battle classes getting better equipment, for example when a new raid tier is released and all the raiders want to get a higher item level with crafter gear. And you can't progress in this game with only playing crafters / gatheres. You still need your battle class to get through the story. And the battle classes are the main point of this game, not the crafters / gatheres, they are more on the support side, helping you with getting equipment / money / glamour or whatever.
But what is the purpose of BLU? It simply doesn't have one if it stays limited forever. Why get all these great skills from enemies if you can only use them on low level unimportant mobs? You can't complete the story with it because of the level cap. You can't enter palace of the dead or heaven on high (as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong). You can't raid. There isn't even a reason for bringing a BLU in pony farming groups ( for example), why bother with a level 50 BLU when you can simply take a level 80 BLM? Sure you can do that "for fun", but that still is only possible if your team mates agree and don't kick you.
Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of getting my skills from enemies and not just by level up. But if I get these skills, I want to use them. I think currently it looks like this will happen: people will either ignore the job from the start or get all the skills and then don't touch BLU again until new skills for it are released, because they can only use it for content they already did 394834 times. Of course this statement is a bit extreme, but I think it's a possibility.

+1

[Beckett]

Are people just forgetting Crafting/Gathering jobs? Those are designed primarily for solo play; you don't get in a party to go fishing, and the only time crafters have to party up is for Company crafts (for which they literally just stand there so a project can progress). Where is all the outrage that these classes go "against the spirit of MMORPGs" because they are solo experiences?

That's weird, there's no /s. When you say something so utterly wrong, it's usually good form to put a /s at the end, since it's hard to read tone in text.

Yes, yes I am comparing the two. Because just as DoH and DoL are separate from DoW and DoM, so are these new Limited Jobs. It's its own thing, not to be lumped in with DPS/Healer/Tank.

Hahaha, you were serious?! Nobody spent half a decade thinking about how much they were looking forward to playing Carpenter with their raid team. Everyone expected that, if they were to release Blue Mage, it would be playable in all normal content. Also, not that it matters much, but the devs literally called BLU a Ranged DPS, so saying it can't be lumped into the normal categories is straight up wrong.

Your argument seems to be, "Solo classes can still work and be entertaining in an MMO." and that's fair. People can absolutely have fun playing solo classes, despite this being a mutliplayer game. But the way you're presenting the argument completely ignores why people would be upset that BLU, specifically, is being made a solo job.

[Seraphor]

"
When it comes to BLU, my answer is that I'd prefer a good limited Blue Mage than a trash version of a non-limited Blue Mage. Especially a job so gimmicky, weird and quirky. Which is why I can't understand people claiming that they've been waiting for the job for years and that they wanted to main it, even without knowing anything about how it'd play and how much it'd ressemble Blue Mages. At this point I think that people would main anything as long at it had "Blue Mage" written on it."

My thoughts exactly.

I cant wait for the gunblade job, i could say that it'd definitely be my main, however my main tank is DRK and that could see some improvements, in addition the gunblade job could be shit.
MCH was my other dteam job, but i dont play it, because its shit.

Moral of the story is that regular jobs can be shit, and Blue Mage could have been one of them.


I commend those who are saying it could still have it's ability hunting mechanic while still being a real job, at least theyre trying, but i do think its a pipe dream.
I think the two playstyles are fundamentally at odds.

You cant have a fulfilling, challenging method of hunting down and learning enemy skills in whatever order you like, and fit those skills into a strict and balanced rotation. One will invariably take from the other.
You cant have any rotation at all, or any kind of skill interaction, unless you learn all your skills in order at certain intervals.
Because you learn skills sporadically, each skill has to work on its own, efficiently and in isolation.

[Seraphor]

"There's no point in solo content in an mmo."

Absolute bullshit. There's every point in solo content, and all mmo devs are aware of this and create specific solo content.

Yes, there are some players, albeit a minority, who only play solo content, but its not just about them.
You cant be playing with other people all the time, there will be downtime, when your friends arent online, when you're waiting for a queue to pop, etc. Solo content is meant for that downtime.

[ChaoticCrimson]

I'm reserving judgement on BLU until it's actually available and we've had time to see how it is. Being forced to do preformed groups for any sort of group instance is a pain, but probably not a total dealbreaker depending on how it's used. I'm also interested to see what comes out of the Masked Carnivale challenges. Plus, we won't have a full picture until they eventually bring it up to the max level cap. Still too many unknowns for me to form a concrete opinion on it.

[Nihility]

just think of it like a side-activity
A traditional blue mage was never going to make it in as a standard job. It just doesn't fit the mold and that needs to be accepted

I don't see anyone complaining that you can't triple triad or gold saucer in raid content or gatherer or crafter for that matter
but they all exist and are all played and all have rewards

At the point something exists enough for them to show it to us it already is what it is and complaining won't change that. If it works they'll make more and if it falls flat they'll keep supporting blue mage as the one and only 'limited battle job'

[Mibgestalt]

just think of it like a side-activity
A traditional blue mage was never going to make it in as a standard job. It just doesn't fit the mold and that needs to be accepted

People keep parroting this argument without any proof or points whatsoever. A traditional Blue Mage was a caster DPS with a sword that did damage and had niche support and debuff abilities. There is nothing in that inherently that is incompatible with an MMO or FFXIV's game design. Red Mage, a job that traditionally straddles two MMO roles was able to fit into this game. Not to mention jobs like DRK and SMN that are widely different from traditional iterations to make them fit into the game. It's honestly not a well-supported argument, unless you're directly trying to copy-paste FFXI's design or single-player abilities, which is something Square hasn't done for any other job yet.

I don't see anyone complaining that you can't triple triad or gold saucer in raid content or gatherer or crafter for that matter
but they all exist and are all played and all have rewards

These things are... not even related to raid content or the battle system whatsoever, so obviously no one would complain about them not having access to it? Blue Mage is, like all combat classes, built around the battle system. But it can only access a portion of the battle system content. That is the problem. This is such a false equivalency, I'm really not sure you believe what you're saying.

At the point something exists enough for them to show it to us it already is what it is and complaining won't change that. If it works they'll make more and if it falls flat they'll keep supporting blue mage as the one and only 'limited battle job'

No one is expecting Blue Mage to change before it's release. People are hoping the direction they're planning for the class can be altered moving forward. The devs do not have a good track record of supporting solo or side content to the degree that people would be comfortable with for such a pivotal FF job, and that is why people are worried. Lord of Verminion, Gold Saucer, Squadrons, these things all get meager updates that can be cleared or fully experienced with in a couple hours once every couple patches. People do not want Blue Mage relegated to the same status or frequency of play. It'd be a sad fate for such an iconic Job.