Cleric Stance Rework (Suggestion)

[CorbinDallas]

I'd rather see healers become more engaging in non-DPS ways. Give us more support options or other things to do. Make it so DPS isn't the default downtime activity in the first place.

That will never be the case as long as the game is designed around everyone doing as much damage as possible. Look as Astro and how Minor Arcana has become just another DPS tool, you don't even hold Lady of Crowns for anything and just throw it away for a quicker chance at Lord of Crowns for, you guessed it, more damage.

I get the sentiment that "healers want to heal", but quite frankly the game isn't designed in such a way that healing can ever be engaging since everything is 99% scripted with most content not even needing you to think about what heal to use at any given time. Almost everything can be solved by a single off global.

[Brightamethyst]

That will never be the case as long as the game is designed around everyone doing as much damage as possible.

But they could change that. They have the power. Nerf healer damage while in parties, lower heal potency forcing more, smaller heals, more support options, etc.

That won't happen obviously, this is SE we're talking about after all, but I can dream.

Almost everything can be solved by a single off global.

Yeah, healing is mindbogglingly OP in this game. As much as I love being hilariously strong, there's no denying that the battle system needs a redesign and all healers needs massive nerfs.

[Jonnycbad]

FFXI is a good example of healers never needing to DPS really. For one, healer DPS was nearly non-existent on any relevant content due to extraordinary accuracy/evasion/defense checks, which mages didn't come anywhere near close enough, and also extremely low potencies on any and all damage spells. That said, battles were not scripted, so healers had to always be on their toes to heal and remove debuffs (which almost everything was raid wide debuffs). Healers had to upkeep single target buffs on themselves (refresh,stoneskin) as well as making sure tanks were always capped because damage was unavoidable/undodgeable, and tank cooldowns were 3-5min each.

[Brightamethyst]

Sort of. In XI MP was a much more valuable resource and there was a lot of literally doing nothing mid fight in order to not waste, or rest back MP (at least in 75 era XI, no idea what it's like now.) If MP worked like in XIV you bet healers would have been nuking regularly.

[Ghishlain]

I will agree, what prevented healer DPS in XI was the preciousness of MP. It's a bit less of a problem now a days thanks to having things like 10-16mp/tick refresh available via gear and songs but it's still important not to waste MP on frivolous things.

Also healer nukes were generally very weak. WHM nukes were both expensive and had long recasts so you couldn't just spam DPS spells all day. RDM nukes capped at tier... 3 I think at 75? Which were pitiful in damage compared to BLM or SCH. And SCH nuking required the use of a Stratagem (think Aetherflow in some fashion) to get access to their largest nukes, and those Stratagems could be used to augment your healing spells.

The funny thing about healer DPS in XI is the fact that meleeing as a healer would be more effective than nuking as a healer - especially since WHM can essentially get infinite MP with the right gearing and party setups and some of the fight benefited having your WHM be afflicted with debuffs as well due to Esuna.

[Limonia]

I was really happy when the old Cleric Stance was removed. It's so much better now.
Of course I used Cleric Stance back then but it was a really annoying mechanic.

I would prefer it if they made healer DPS engaging in another way. And maybe give healers also something else than only DPS to use when not healing. But at least make healer DPS a little more interesting as long as it's not overly complicated.

Some people would like it if WHM only would get back the old Cleric Stance. I think I would main AST or SCH then instead. I've been WHM since the beginning. I've often thought I should switch but always stayed WHM. But if the old Cleric Stance would come back to WHM I wouldn't even hesitate to switch if the rest of WHM's kit would stay the same. It would even make more sense if SCH got it instead.

[LiddyGhu]

- Keep the current mind scaling on damage, so people aren't pressured into using cleric if they're too scared that people will die and their 5 second Cleric cooldown will cause a wipe. They can still deal ok damage.

- Revert Cleric back to a toggled stance which reduces your healing output while active.

- Increase the damage bonus of Cleric Stance to 25-35% or so.

Basically, make DPSing as a healer other than SCH fun and interactive again, risky but rewarding, satisfying to master the role. Applying a DoT or two then spamming a single button for 20s isn't fun. Changing Cleric this way, while retaining the current mind scaling, allows those who wish to do so the opportunity to challenge and push themselves to to better, while also making DPS accessible to anyone who either can't or won't use Cleric out of fear of whatever.

I don't like the new cleric stance either. I was VERY indifferent about the removal of the old one. Basically I didn't care either way. Because all it was to me was an extra chore to turn off before pressing heal abilities.
I don't think adding it back but slightly less polarizing than before is the right thing to do. You advertised this thread as a "rework," but it's really just the same thing.
I don't think Cleric Stance needs to stay in the game at all. Instead, they should give us more buffing capabilities to keep us interested and involved rather than damage abilities OR cleric stance.
More buffing of other players. Since "Healer" doesn't really exist in FFXIV, and they're more like "DPS with healing tools," they should just turn us into full-on heal+support jobs, with tons of focus on buffing allies, and some dps to fill with. That'd be a much more interesting experience than adding chores.

[Ayer2015]

I prefer the new Cleric Stance mechanically. That said, the skill could use a serious buff to the effect.

[KDSilver]

I prefer the new Cleric Stance mechanically. That said, the skill could use a serious buff to the effect.

Well now, that's more or less okay, but when we used to only have 5 slots availaible, is was a really "meeeeh" option.

I honestly think it'll completely vanish in SHB.

[Mansion]

Well now, that's more or less okay, but when we used to only have 5 slots availaible, is was a really "meeeeh" option.

I honestly think it'll completely vanish in SHB.

Well as long as FFXIV does not "force" more DPS on the healers (by adding more DPS options in their kit or these kind of buffs, making rougher raid DPS requirements), it's most likely to stay as it is for now. Available for those who want it, but not so necessary.
I see some kind of "shy" progression towards that healer DPS requirements, but I really wish they would push it a bit further (at least on high end content).