Is TBN a DPS loss?

[Ryallen]

My friend keeps insisting that TBN is a DPS loss and refuses to use it in raids. He uses this reddit post to prove his point:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...mall_dps_loss/

I know that this isn't true but I can't find the numbers to prove it. Is he right? I don't think he is but at this point I just need to know.

[Nockvryca]

I didn't check the math and don't really plan to, but assuming the math is correct, that is 7 potency, it's so little that it doesn't matter. A crit here and there, especially if it is from a dark arts bloodspiller will more than make up for it.

Now if you use it too often or on cd, it most definetly will become a dps loss. You have to find the best why to use it, which is pretty much up to you, personally for me some fights see more use out of it than others. I always use it in my opener. O9s doesnt really do alot of damage especially on the tank, so i pretty much only use it for busters. O10s does alot of damage, i use it for all busters, and on cooldown for ancient dragon.

It's pretty much an on demand rampart, so it is key to use, especially in fights that the tank buster really hurts, like o10s for example.

Would it be better if it were ogcd, of couse, but used smartly it is pretty much dps neutral.

[Nockvryca]

Also in dungeons it is important to use it to keep your aoe rotation going.

[Cro93]

Will that dps -/+ matter if your dead?

The answer to that is gonna be a no

Can you manage your cool downs to avoid the extra pain?

Yes

Its based on player- my take is, in general, to make your job easy as possible if your a dps or a healer. Dps to me is pointless if i cant make sure the party is dead dying or cant make the cut

[Hierro]

The REAL answer is "it depends."

For example, if there's a trick attack window and you use TBN and pop it within that same duration to use a DA'd Bloodspiller, TBN is officially a gain. Another example would be is if you KNOW your GCDs always end up a certain way during a fight. If you've been noticing you always finish a phase on a hard slash, deliberately using TBN to use bloodspiller instead is now an official gain.

Then there are instances where using TBN may be a DPS loss, but a necessary one to avoid a bigger loss. If you used BW and delirium, you might find you're swimming in so much MP you're at risk of capping, and using DA isn't enough. TBN on whoever's MTing will then be a good solution, better than using DP (a 14 pot loss) or even overflowing, which is huggee potency loss. Of course, there's also the argument that using TBN might save your healer a GCD, especially during certain segments where damage is heavy on the tanks.

Personally, I use the hell out of TBN and I achieved OVERALL ORANGES! If your buddy's worried about his parses, he should focus on fundamentals first and min-maxing later, unless he's already at high 99's across the board but I doubt it if he thinks TBN is as simple as "it's a loss."

[Rubytoe]

The REAL answer is "it depends."

For example, if there's a trick attack window and you use TBN and pop it within that same duration to use a DA'd Bloodspiller, TBN is officially a gain. Another example would be is if you KNOW your GCDs always end up a certain way during a fight. If you've been noticing you always finish a phase on a hard slash, deliberately using TBN to use bloodspiller instead is now an official gain.

Then there are instances where using TBN may be a DPS loss, but a necessary one to avoid a bigger loss. If you used BW and delirium, you might find you're swimming in so much MP you're at risk of capping, and using DA isn't enough. TBN on whoever's MTing will then be a good solution, better than using DP (a 14 pot loss) or even overflowing, which is huggee potency loss. Of course, there's also the argument that using TBN might save your healer a GCD, especially during certain segments where damage is heavy on the tanks.

Personally, I use the hell out of TBN and I achieved OVERALL ORANGES! If your buddy's worried about his parses, he should focus on fundamentals first and min-maxing later, unless he's already at high 99's across the board but I doubt it if he thinks TBN is as simple as "it's a loss."

I agree with all this.
I find its dps neutral as long as it pops everytime. The key to drks dps is making sure youre NEVER at max MP, single weave during bloodweapon, and double weave when its off.
If you plan on using C&S during BW, darkarts after Souleater combo, and use C&S after HardSlash.

It can be tough to not overcap on mp while single weaving in BW. But that's when tbn, and DP can help out. Like Hierro said, over capping mp is a big dps loss.

[shao32]

that post on reddit is from a year ago, TBN is our main mitigation for everything and the dps gain/loss depending of the situation is so small its dosen't matter today except if the shield don't pop of course, tell you friend stop using that as a reference and pair TBN with everything, he is making your healers work harder for a outdate post.

[AppleJinx]

"TL;DR - TBN is relatively DPS neutral when looking at a large scale of events. Focus on using it to reduce damage, and optimize your mana usage after you are comfortable with your raid group and damage intake."

Source: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...fjq2CcVYE/edit

[ChiiSoSeriouz]

tanks refusing to use defensive cds because they think its a damage loss, now u know why healers are always in demand, they have to deal with that sht.

[AwesomeBlossom]

Yeah, three TBNs is roughly 23.3 potency lost over 45 seconds. The horror.

It's also roughly 46-47k HP that your healers don't have to heal. If that saves even one GCD of healing, if that turns into even one healer attack, active TBN use is a raid dps gain.