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  1. #21
    Player
    Grimoire-M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    987
    Character
    Grimoire Mogri
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Inosaska View Post
    -snip-
    It's less an identity crisis and more of a lack of synergy. We have an identity. We deal damage over time, and micro manage burst that is spread between ourselves (DoTs/Aetherflow), our Egi, and Bahamut. DoTs and Aetherflow are part of this identity, and should not go away just because it doesn't 'feel' like Summoners of the past. We try to contribute just as much as our Summons do, and it's only by working in tandem with them that we see our best results. The problem is very little of the disparate parts of our kit are allowed to interact with one another in a meaningful and fluid manner. In other words, the Egi and Bahamut do not enhance us enough, nor vice versa. The abilities that currently have any direct interaction between the Summoner and a Summon are Sustain, Rouse, Enkindle, Contagion, DWT, Devotion, the Ruin IV/Enkindle proc, Wyrmwave, and Enkindle Bahamut. That's it. Bahamut carries the bulk of the meaningful interaction between any part of our kit now, taking over the role DWT had prior to Stormblood. That's why I believe consolidating Rouse, DWT, and him into one button and removing the Aetherflow lockouts would help out a ton with our flow. It leaves only the egi themselves to worry about, that way.

    While I hope they fix the egi to work better, I sure as hell don't want them to work exactly like Bahamut. He has flaws too. He's actually worse than both of them, and hits even harder in order to make it more aggravating. Imagine Garuda chasing after you in-between each of her 1s spell casts when her GCD is 3s. Or Ifrit doing the same in-between autos. All the while they keep the same clunky delay on abilities that we order them to do, that we've been trying to get fixed since ARR's launch. That's what Bahamut does currently. It would actually be a step backward, not forward, to implement how he works into their kits. The one thing that's near-universally agreed on is that the Egi overall don't feel impactful, but I don't think embracing Bahamut along with his flaws is the way to go about fixing that problem though. I've talked about it in my prior posts in this thread, however, so I'd advise reading those instead for more details.

    For the Summons overall, simply consider two Quality of Life adjustments to how they should work. Make all Summons, including Bahamut, auto-cast the way Bahamut currently does, but only when you use an appropriate spell. Not on any oGCD skills whatsoever, unless they specifically state that they command your pet to do something, like Devotion and both Enkindles do. All of the auto-cast spells would be instant, and have a 1.5s recast timer. Ifrit/Titan would not auto attack either. Similarly, make Bahamut root himself the same way Garuda does. As long as he is in range of the same target you attacked, he shouldn't move, at all.

    Another thing that would be nice is if the text for Damage over Time and pet damage from a pet that belongs to you showed up the same way GCD and auto attack text does. With the ability to delineate between those types by changing their colors if you wanted, provided they were your own. That way you could see the damage your DoTs are doing and whether they're critting or not. I guarantee we'd appreciate DoTs and Pets more if we could see their damage flying up constantly alongside our own. In general it would be nice to fiddle more with the floating damage/healing text of this game, to fix issues like that.
    (2)
    Petition Thread for "Playable Loporrits": https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/436512-Make-them-Playable-You-Cowards
    Are You Happy with the Endwalker Healer Reveal? - Poll: https://strawpoll.vote/polls/2e6mxhnx/vote - Thread: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/443437-Poll-Are-You-Happy-with-the-Healer-Kit-Reveal-for-Endwalker

    Mechanics are Aesthetics. Graphics don't make interesting gameplay.

  2. #22
    Player
    Flana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    195
    Character
    Kana Kharanku
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimoire-M View Post
    Another thing that would be nice is if the text for Damage over Time and pet damage from a pet that belongs to you showed up the same way GCD and auto attack text does. With the ability to delineate between those types by changing their colors if you wanted, provided they were your own. That way you could see the damage your DoTs are doing and whether they're critting or not. I guarantee we'd appreciate DoTs and Pets more if we could see their damage flying up constantly alongside our own. In general it would be nice to fiddle more with the floating damage/healing text of this game, to fix issues like that.
    It's pretty ridiculous this isn't a thing yet, and goes a long way into how dissatisfied I am with the dots now. They're so passive you don't do anything with them outside of Festers dummy-check and you can't even tell what they're doing for damage. I think they appear red on the target but don't stand out at all aside from that, so good luck finding it in the blue blur of numbers from the other people in the group plus your pet wailing on the target. As for the pets, I also think showing you the real numbers would actually hurt how people look at demi-bahamut once they realize that 600 potency is a essentially a fake number due to pet potency. On average it barely hits harder than Deathflare, which really takes away from the power of the moment when you pull back the curtain on the whole thing.

    Also I've been thinking for days about what they could do with Titan-egi and nothing satisfying ever comes up without requiring overhauls to the way pets are handled. Pet swapping mid-combat is still annoying without swiftcast, and even if you do swap all of their cooldowns are synced between the pets. You might not even be able to use the cooldown you wanted on support Titan-egi because Garuda-egi used her aoe 20 seconds ago. The pet system is just such a mess it really needs an overhaul at some point.
    (1)

  3. #23
    Player
    Grimoire-M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    987
    Character
    Grimoire Mogri
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Flana View Post
    It's pretty ridiculous this isn't a thing yet, and goes a long way into how dissatisfied I am with the dots now. They're so passive you don't do anything with them outside of Festers dummy-check and you can't even tell what they're doing for damage. I think they appear red on the target but don't stand out at all aside from that, so good luck finding it in the blue blur of numbers from the other people in the group plus your pet wailing on the target. As for the pets, I also think showing you the real numbers would actually hurt how people look at demi-bahamut once they realize that 600 potency is a essentially a fake number due to pet potency. On average it barely hits harder than Deathflare, which really takes away from the power of the moment when you pull back the curtain on the whole thing.

    Also I've been thinking for days about what they could do with Titan-egi and nothing satisfying ever comes up without requiring overhauls to the way pets are handled. Pet swapping mid-combat is still annoying without swiftcast, and even if you do swap all of their cooldowns are synced between the pets. You might not even be able to use the cooldown you wanted on support Titan-egi because Garuda-egi used her aoe 20 seconds ago. The pet system is just such a mess it really needs an overhaul at some point.
    I don't think Titan-Egi needs a massive rework. He's a solo option, and while not a very good one, he has his uses. I think giving him more advantage over the other pets in solo situations in order to make him better at that but also not be a tank replacement is fine. Stuff like increasing Sustain's potency, or giving him automatic +1 aggro over you via his short cooldowns with very little effort on his part, and maybe another mitigation tool would be enough. It'd probably be Rouse, or that Tri-Disaster rework I suggested earlier. He doesn't need a lot to serve that function well. But push on it too much and suddenly we have Titan Egi main tanking bosses again.

    Regarding the pet cooldowns, I feel they need an overhaul too. Though my opinion is to instead put all of the pet-utilities on the same buttons to ensure they share the same cooldown. This is mainly to prevent the double-swap openers based on getting Radiant Shield and Contagion up at the same time alongside the pet you actually want out. I agree that it makes him and the Egi overall feel clunky but I'm fine with him being a useless pet in raids, especially when he lets you solo unsynced Coil, which is something most DPS classes can't even do.

    As for the pet potency discrepancy, that should be addressed anyways. Very little would change if SE simply changed the potencies in the tool tips to accurately reflect how much they would be if we were casting them ourselves, though I think I recall secondary stats affecting pets at the same rate they do us. It's only the main damage stat/weapon potency that's altered, right? I only mention that because SCH feels it too regarding Fairy healing.
    (1)
    Last edited by Grimoire-M; 12-10-2018 at 12:57 PM.
    Petition Thread for "Playable Loporrits": https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/436512-Make-them-Playable-You-Cowards
    Are You Happy with the Endwalker Healer Reveal? - Poll: https://strawpoll.vote/polls/2e6mxhnx/vote - Thread: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/443437-Poll-Are-You-Happy-with-the-Healer-Kit-Reveal-for-Endwalker

    Mechanics are Aesthetics. Graphics don't make interesting gameplay.

  4. #24
    Player
    Flana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    195
    Character
    Kana Kharanku
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 100
    I think my disdain for Titan-egi just boils down to the fact they've rendered him useless by stapling more abilities at the 'top' of the class which I am just not a fan of. Honestly if they just didn't kill the pet that would go a pretty long ways in fixing his usability since it prevent summoning Demi-Bahamut from being a total aggro wipe. I also had a thought of Titan-egi having a sort of passive Shadewalker while active and if that wouldn't solve most of his problems right away. Not a complete 100% enmity transfer, but enough so that you're helping him maintain aggro to sort of tie you and this specific pets niche a little closer together. It would still be awful for party content since your tank just vanishes every couple of minutes or the Summoner hobbles themselves by not summoning Bahamut. That might be okay since my impression of the Titan-egi incident back with Ramuh is just that he was too good at soaking damage and able to ignore certain mechanics. I wasn't around back then so I could be completely wrong on what made him overpowered.

    I mostly meant that as a response to some earlier posts about Titan-egi's identity and place in the kit, but didn't have a solid quote to differentiate that from my direct response to you, so I apologize if that was unclear or it seemed like I was abruptly trying to change the conversation. I recall a couple people thinking it might be better if he changed to just a utility pet, but then he's just competing against contagion/radiant shield. If his utility isn't good enough, he'll never be used anyways. If it's too good, you'd never use anything except him. I would agree his current place is fine, I just don't like the forced obsolescence or forced clunkiness that Bahamut ends up bringing to his niche.

    For pet discrepancy, I hadn't actually thought about checking secondaries until you mentioned it. I went and looked through just a couple random parses my static uploaded and it seems like critical hit and direct hit are roughly equal to my overall percentages. Oddly one or the other has a huge boost, but it's never both in the same parse. In one Ifrit has like 10% more crit than me but the same dhit. In another Garuda's windblade has the same crit chance but almost twice my direct hit rate. I think it evens out overall but I'm terrible at statistics and can't say for sure.
    (2)

  5. #25
    Player
    Grimoire-M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    987
    Character
    Grimoire Mogri
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 90
    Fair enough. I think we both agree he needs some work regardless, and I do agree that bahamut messes with him badly. I don't think there's a good way to fix it for solo play that winds up being satisfying or a quick thing to do, unfortunately.

    As for the Ramuh days he basically didn't take damage due to pets getting additional damage reduction towards certain things on top of high mdef inherited from the Summoner. Once people decided to experiment with him in Coil SE quickly pulled the plug during the next raid tier.

    My guess on the discrepancy thing is that some of the raid buffs on you didn't get phased out during the pet's stat recalculation. Which can work for and against you. Iirc Rouse, Bahamut, Potions, and Resummoning (whether via the hotbar or post-Bahamut) triggers the recalculation. I know some raid buffs affect the pet as well though I believe it's done via checking if it affects you as well. It's kinda muddy overall.
    (1)
    Last edited by Grimoire-M; 12-12-2018 at 02:05 PM.
    Petition Thread for "Playable Loporrits": https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/436512-Make-them-Playable-You-Cowards
    Are You Happy with the Endwalker Healer Reveal? - Poll: https://strawpoll.vote/polls/2e6mxhnx/vote - Thread: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/443437-Poll-Are-You-Happy-with-the-Healer-Kit-Reveal-for-Endwalker

    Mechanics are Aesthetics. Graphics don't make interesting gameplay.

  6. #26
    Player
    Atomos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    19
    Character
    Zeladene Josanmas
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 80
    Make summoner great again! Overhaul it’s ass
    Get rid of the shitty egi’s.
    Change It’s core mechanics so that we can actually use more of the primals that we have in the game. Instead of just having the same 3 egi’s we’ve had from the start.
    (1)

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