Healer for speed running dungeons

[Ftail]

On what planet do you live on where you can put up regens before a pull? On trash this would just be silly, the tank would hate you. Problematic even if you tried to stay right on top of the tank. On bosses, it would be a good way to move the boss out of position or take an attack to the face. Most tanks will remove regens on them when doing trash pulls. Not to say WHM doesn't have nice tools but pre HoTing before the pulls isn't one of them.

Good correction, it's best to throw the regen on right after the tank establishes aggro on trash mobs. But my main point about regens and holy spam is still untouched. Edit: I edited the post you quoted me in because you made a good point.

[LazyTitan87]

On what planet do you live on where you can put up regens before a pull? On trash this would just be silly, the tank would hate you. Problematic even if you tried to stay right on top of the tank. On bosses, it would be a good way to move the boss out of position or take an attack to the face. Most tanks will remove regens on them when doing trash pulls. Not to say WHM doesn't have nice tools but pre HoTing before the pulls isn't one of them.

Off-topic, but I tanked the Vault on my PLD (I'm usually a healer). Healer pre-casted Aspected Helios Diurnal every...single...pull.

How do people even think that's a good idea?

[EaMett]

I have never ever heard a tank complain about Holy Stunning a mob they wanted to stun, this seems so far fetched it's probably made up. If that fool of tank does exist, does he also get mad at the Melee DPS classes for stunning targets?

First off I never mentioned anyone outright complaining about it, I said it was detrimental. And it certainly isn't made up. Just look at the burn for instance with those huge worm aoes. Many a tank and/or dps will stun those. Holy doesn't give you the opportunity to do any aoe management because you immunize mobs to stun really early in the pull. People don't complain because healer's doing dps, good enough they just deal with it. Doesn't make it nice. And this is far from being the only example.

Also you seem to forget that you can cast miasma II more often than holy, and aren't accounting for the dot, or the fact there's no reduction per enemy, or the fact the sch can weave dps in between, or the fact the sch doesn't need to break cast to move out of aoes, or the fact sch doesn't need to break cast to heal (doesn't even have to heal at all most of the time, prepull adlo, E4E, faerie heals, mitigation,tether are more than enough), or the other 3 multi target dots the scholar has etc. etc. Adding all of these end to end make a significant difference. I've played WHM all my FF14 playtime until recently. I wouldn't even bother trying to compete with my sch. It's hard enough for me to outdps my own sch with a dps class... let alone another healer class.

[RopeDrink]

I said it was detrimental. Holy doesn't give you the opportunity to do any aoe management because you immunize mobs to stun really early in the pull. People don't complain because healer's doing dps, good enough they just deal with it. Doesn't make it nice. And this is far from being the only example.

So AoE management is detrimental to AoE management. Ok. Except that by the time you've stunned them, eg. those worms, they'll already be casting their AoE and thus there is no real loss to interrupting it - and while stunned x 2 there is ample time for a tank to do whatever they feel is appropriate for enmity. It is also not likely that a WHM would be casting Holy at any point before the tank is in their desired spot, unless - like me - you occasionally consider a QC/Holy while sprinting vs half of a double pull to give tanks breathing room while they move to the next batch. There is also no need to 'leave' that area until you've done a whole session of PoM/TA/CS + Holy Bonanza seeing as it'll interrupt all of them until the time your buffs have faded, and let's not pretend like there's anything else to do provided you have opened with Aero 3.

You can talk about weaving and pet heals and all that jazz - but at no point in any Burn run as a WHM (of which I've done many) has anyone even considered complaining about me annihilating all those massive pulls with Holy, nor was it detrimental to healing, tanking or DPS, nor was it difficult in any capacity at all. As an ex-PLD main and a War-alt partial to Low-Blowing problematic mobs to stop casts such as Worm AoE (ie. two tanks I loved stunning with), I would be very happy to have myself as a Healer.

I have never ever heard a tank complain about Holy Stunning a mob they wanted to stun, this seems so far fetched it's probably made up.

I can recall two instances where a tank whined about my Holy - once when "The Fractal Continuum (Hard)" was the 'latest' - a PLD complained about my holy spam against a double-pull - he genuinely preferred I didn't do DPS at all simply because the pull contained a Minotaur, so he and his friend kicked me out, which is hilarious given said group had no actual AoE in terms of DPS roles so I was out-performing the damage dealers in those situations and neither the tank, DPS nor myself where under any actual threat of coming even close to dying, nevermind getting damaged. As someone who plays tanks AND healers myself, all I could do was laugh and enjoy an instant queue-pop that gave me a group (with another PLD) who laughed along with me at it, seeing as I entered and jokingly asked "You're not going to kick me for using Holy like the last bunch, are you?" - when I tank, I'd have loved that healer - the most I used to get at the time where AFK'ers who'd Cure 99% healthbars back when that was far more prevalent.

I forget the specifics of the other incident but I definitely remember two instances of tanks taking the time to stop playing and get salty about Holy, without it being a conflict between DRK/WHM who refuse to adapt to eachother (Holy vs DRK's AoE sustain).

[Gemina]

Even if AST and SCH pull more DPS, WHM wins dungeon mowing with assize alone. Though this is more due to preference. That instant 300 potency with no dmg reduction regardless of number of targets, and also respectable range is just too good, and feels good to use and weave between gcds. If you're like me, and enjoy being a little too close in melee range for comfort, Assize is like the most yummy pudding ever.

So I would just take the healer you feel the most comfortable with. For me it's usually WHM because on top of my love for Assize, it's a more basic healer that doesn't have to micro manage anything.

[WigandHellscream]

Thank you all for the replys. I am currently sch70 whm65 and ast61 and enjoying them all. And had totaly forgot MiasmaIi so that might improve the speed on my sch. So now I only need the last few levels and then the dungeon farming can begin.

[miraidensetsu]

How do people even think that's a good idea?

By forgetting or not knowing about healing aggro generation.

Well, I learned that on the hard way, after aggroing an entire pack of monsters just putting a regen too early back when I was doing my 1st run on Stone Vigil. Good times...

[EaMett]

[...] but at no point in any Burn run as a WHM (of which I've done many) has anyone even considered complaining about me annihilating all those massive pulls with Holy [...]

This was my point. No one is going to complain. Also you say it isn't detrimental but holy spamming those worms immunizes them within seconds of the pull. If your two dps are melee lets see how much they enjoy having to run out of range to avoid getting hit. When I ran as WHM I would tell my melee to just stand in those big aoes so we could burn through the packs faster. As SCH they actually AoE manage more than you would expect.

All of this is relative to how fast the packs burn. The faster, the less immunization to stun is an issue. But in my experience it's quite rare for packs to burn all that quickly.

[Gemina]

This was my point. No one is going to complain. Also you say it isn't detrimental but holy spamming those worms immunizes them within seconds of the pull. If your two dps are melee lets see how much they enjoy having to run out of range to avoid getting hit. When I ran as WHM I would tell my melee to just stand in those big aoes so we could burn through the packs faster. As SCH they actually AoE manage more than you would expect.

All of this is relative to how fast the packs burn. The faster, the less immunization to stun is an issue. But in my experience it's quite rare for packs to burn all that quickly.

Not only that, the highest incoming damage for the tank is when he/she stops and the pack swarms in. Every telegraph comes with that lovely bonus auto attack that benefits both us and the enemy when a skill is used. Stuns are the most important at the beginning when the DMG is the heaviest, and the sooner the WHM gets Holy off, the better. I love it when DRKs complain, and I have to educate them that stunning 3 packs of mobs all at once trumps their stupid bloodprice. Dumbass DRK should've used it during the pull so they have full MP when they come to a stop.

[Shurrikhan]

In raid environment, SCH and AST are the current meta, but I believe WHM is still the strongest option for dungeons.

WHM is only really best in fights when you have early and strong mob AoEs to stun that would otherwise force your melee out and thereby disrupt AoEing, which are few even in the instances that have them at all. In any other situation, WHM is the worst speed-runner, even if not by a huge margin.