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  1. #1
    Player
    Lyth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Meracydia
    Posts
    3,883
    Character
    Lythia Norvaine
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100

    [Shadowbringers] 5.0 DRK: Take five, leave five.

    With the announcement of the new expansion, there's a lot of discussion on how the existing jobs will change in 5.0. One of the biggest influencing factors will be the introduction of new actions between level 70-80.


    Unfortunately, the addition of new actions often comes along with the removal of old ones, due to hotbar space limitations. Barring the introduction of a new system designed to combat action bloat while retaining old skills (such as job-based skill/talent trees which let you choose between optional actions), we're likely going to be giving up some actions in the process.

    As of Stormblood, DRK has fewer job actions (25) than any other tank (one less than WAR (26), and three less than PLD (28)), so there is an argument for removing fewer actions from DRK. But let's consider the worst case scenario.

    You can add any five actions that you want. But you have to leave five behind. What do you add, and what do you discard?

    Discard:
    1. Unleash: This ability becomes redundant once you get Abyssal Drain at level 56. If you dropped Abyssal Drain down to level 6, it could replace Unleash.
    2. Blood Price: The Grit lock isn't doing this ability any favours, and the devs seem to be struggling to balance the amount of resources that it generates.
    3. Darkside: This could be converted to a trait. MP regeneration occurs when there are no active mobs (including when the boss goes untargetable to perform a special attack), and stops when there is a targetable mob in combat.

    Alternatives:
    1. Blood Weapon: This could be merged with Delirium to free up a hotbar slot.
    2. Spinning Slash: We don't use enmity combos all that much, and this is largely a filler step to get to Power Slash. Why not branch Power Slash directly off of Hard Slash?
    3. Grit: This is a fairly complex issue, discussed here. Can you redesign the tanks such that tank stance is no longer needed? If so, you'd free up a hotbar slot here.
    4. Dark Mind: This is one that I'd hate to see go because of how powerful it is, but I think the whole "physical tank, magical tank" concept is a bit outdated.

    Ideas for Additions:
    1. Dread Spikes/Wraithform: Any time you deal damage or are hit by an enemy for the next X seconds, you recover a portion of the damage back as HP. Your actions generate additional enmity. Gives you that purple flames aura that we've been asking for.
    2. Backstep/Reverse Cut: 10 yalm backstep. Resets the recast timer on Plunge.
    3. Runic Blade: Absorbs a portion of the damage from the next enemy spell, converting it to MP.
    4. Shadowbringer/Omnislash: Every time you activate a Dark Arts enhanced action under the effect of Blood Weapon/Delirium, you gain a stack. Using this ability consumes all stacks and removes the effect of Blood Weapon/Delirium. For every stack consumed this way, you perform an additional slash for X potency. You also deal Y potency based on the remaining time on Blood Weapon.

    What other possibilities are there? You could upgrade an existing action with an new trait. Living Dead is a good candidate for a rework. I'd also be interested in seeing "counter-attack" abilities to be used following a big boss hit, like Reflect or Minus Strike. I left out potencies deliberately, because that's a balancing issue.

    I just threw a few ideas out there quickly, but it'll be really interesting to see what the devs come up with.
    (4)

  2. #2
    Player
    Jandor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    3,481
    Character
    Tal Young
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Warrior only have 22 actions (plus role actions) on their bar though, 3 swap depending on stance and Inner Release upgrades Berserk.

    I agree with discarding Darkside, it's pointless these days.
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player
    Jollyy5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    424
    Character
    Raul Prower
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 71
    Abyssal Drain could just replace Unleash once you reach the level it's obtained at.

    Just in general, they could deal with the button bloat by not only removing skills and adding new ones, but "upgrading" the ones you have to something fancier and more powerful.
    (5)

  4. #4
    Player
    TabrisOmbrelame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    511
    Character
    Relnoria Thelysea
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    See the combo skill in Pvp? Add that and you use two slot instead of five. You can then use more skill without or less remove
    (1)

  5. #5
    Player Seraphor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    4,620
    Character
    Seraphor Vhinasch
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Unleash is essential for low level play, they cant afford to get rid of that or it will be unplayable for new players or when synced down.
    They could have it auto-upgrade to Abyssal Drain though like thunder/aero etc.

    Blood Price is essential when in Grit, if anything they should merge Blood Price and Blood Weapon. They're used exclusively in or out of Grit respectively, and do the same thing but from different perspectives, one is receiving hits in tank stance, the other is dealing hit in dps stance.

    Make Darkside a trait, nothing more to say about that.
    There, weve saved three already.

    I dont think we necessarily need five more skills from 70-80. Because button bloat is going to be an issue for all jobs, i think a better course if action would be to only add maybe 2 new skills, and provide other upgrades via traits that change the function of existing skills.
    (3)

  6. #6
    Player Seraphor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    4,620
    Character
    Seraphor Vhinasch
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    I like the proposed Runic Blade snd Shadowbringer though. Should definitely get stuff like that.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    TabrisOmbrelame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    511
    Character
    Relnoria Thelysea
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Naoki Yoshida was always looking how to make tank... Well... True tank... Perhaps it's time to add more traits that make tank stance rewarding when actually tanking monster or bosses
    (2)

  8. #8
    Player
    Steelbreeze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    63
    Character
    Knight Shade
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by TabrisOmbrelame View Post
    Naoki Yoshida was always looking how to make tank... Well... True tank... Perhaps it's time to add more traits that make tank stance rewarding when actually tanking monster or bosses
    Balance would be hard but having a dps increase when in tank stance that triggers from being attacked (IE vengeance in MoP)would work. Have it so it brings tank dps near their dps stance.
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player
    Hierro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    722
    Character
    Ziero Rehw-bidit
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Darkside trait

    blood weapon/price merge

    PvP combo buttons for both SE and PS.

    Oh, and make nu-bloodprice/weapon a 60 second cooldown with the perks of Delirium built in, exactly in the same way how berserk and inner release were built into a single 90 second cooldown. BW is a 40 second cooldown, delirium is an 80 second cooldown. Berserk was 1 min, IR was 2 minute, but combined resulted into an average of 90 seconds, and that's how I arrived at a 60 second BW cooldown.

    boom, right there you freed up 7 buttons without sacrificing anything DRK currently has.
    (0)
    Last edited by Hierro; 11-23-2018 at 05:39 AM.

  10. #10
    Player
    Kabooa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    4,391
    Character
    Jace Ossura
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 100
    I will go a little farther and not only put what I think is / should be culled / added but what I'd like to see modified.

    Actions Culled

    1. Blood Price
    2. Blood Weapon

    These are removed as their own individual actions, instead becoming fundamental parts of Grit and Dark Side. Their function in the current kit will not change overmuch, but they are still being 'removed'.

    Edit - On further consideration

    Black Blade and Dark Mind existing together steps on each other toes while also expanding the Dark Knight's kit against magic damage to a nigh broken degree. Of the two, Black Blade simply offers more.

    3. Dark Mind

    Actions modified

    1. Dark Side

    Rather than be Gritless, Dark Side is the de-facto Not-Tanking stance. The two are exclusive from each other. The Dark Knight builds blood and MP by dealing damage with weaponskills.

    The Dark Knight's attack speed is increased, ranging from 5% to 15%, with the highest bonus attainable when over 75% maximum HP.

    Upon activating Dark Side, the Dark Knight delivers a cleaving strike to all enemies in front of them.


    2. Grit

    Grit is the de facto Tank stance. Grit's prior bonuses do not change, still granting increased damage reduction and increased threat generation. Grit will no longer inherently reduce damage dealt.

    Grit Dark Knights build blood and MP primarily by taking damage.

    While in Grit, the Dark Knight gains increased parry chance and increased parry strength.

    Upon activating Grit, the Dark Knight drains health from all enemies around them.


    3. Unleash

    Instead of removing certain abilities, we trait them, removing the need for level swapping, while adding a more tangible sense of progression. (While Abyssal Drain is superior, Unleash serves the purpose until it's gotten.)

    With this in mind.

    Upgrade Path

    Unleash (Level 6) -> Unmend (Level 15 trait) -> Abyssal Drain (Level 54 (or wherever it was) Trait))

    Unleash is modified thus-
    Dark Arts: Gain the damage dealt as health.
    Unmend: Unleash, when an enemy is targeted, additionally sends out a ranged bolt of energy at the target in addition to current effects.
    Abyssal Drain: Unleash, in addition to current effects, now also deals the ranged damage in an AoE around it.

    Animation change
    Unleash: Unchanged
    Unmend: Abyssal Drain's motion, Unmend's spell effect
    Abyssaldrain: Unmend's motion, Drain's spell effect.

    I didn't count this as removal as it just makes more sense from the angle of ability progression. In this same manner, Warrior's Brutal Swing should have more gracefully transitioned into Upheaval.


    4. Sole Survivor

    Gains a trait in the 61-70 range. Soul Drain. Drains 30% of the Dark Knight's maximum health from the target. May be activated early to gain the health immediately, but do damage and drain MP proportional to the time left.


    5. Delirium

    Recast: 120
    Effect: You gain the MP and Blood generation of either Dark Side or Grit, whichever is not active, for 20 seconds.


    Actions added

    1. Black Blade

    Blackblade - Ability
    Recast: 45 seconds
    Effect: Raise your blade for 3 seconds, parrying the next attack flung against you. Blackblade enables parry against Magic damage.

    Dark Side: Blackblade deals a retaliatory strike for 220 potency and increases the attack speed bonus of Dark Side by 100% for 10 seconds.

    Grit: Blackblade deals 120 magic potency to enemies around you and increases parry rate to 100% for the next 2 attacks against you.


    Vita In Morte

    Vita In Morte
    Spell
    Cost: 50 Blood
    Effect: Grant yourself 100% Life Drain and 25% increased MP returns for 20 seconds.


    Shadowblade

    Shadowblade
    Ability
    Recast: 45
    Effect: Mimics your last used weaponskill at the target, dealing 100 potency and applying any additional effects that were present.

    Dark Side: Shadowblade counts as a weapon skill and deals the damage over two separate strikes.
    Grit: Shadowblade's cooldown is reduced each time you parry.


    Reprisal

    Reprisal
    Ability
    Channeled - 15 seconds
    60s Recast
    Effect: Reflect attacks taken for 30 potency while channeling. Moving or using another action to resolve Reprisal causes it to deal 100 potency to enemies around you. Each time you take damage, Reprisal's final potency increases by 10.

    Dark Arts: Reflected attacks have 100% life drain. Final potency increases by 20 each time you take damage.

    Dark Side: Reprisal counts as a weapon skill.
    Grit: Gain the damage dealt as healing. Overhealing converts into a shield, up to 20% of maximum health.


    Scourge


    Scourge
    Weaponskill
    Recast: 1.5 seconds
    Effect: Strikes twice for 75 potency. Marks the target for execution for 30 seconds. Scourge's potency increases by 15 against the target every 3 seconds. Using Scourge again resets the bonus.

    Scourge must follow Bloodspiller, Quietus or a Combo Finisher.

    Dark Arts: Scourge strikes one additional time.

    Dark Side: Scourge's duration increases by 15 seconds.
    Grit: Scourge applies at half damage for all enemies around the primary target.


    Button Economy - 5 removed, 5 added.
    (0)
    Last edited by Kabooa; 11-23-2018 at 05:54 AM.

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