Risk Factor. Can I have it?

[Catharsis]

FFXI's partying system, whether the developers planned for it or not, was dynamic and diverse.

What's so dynamic and diverse about sitting in town waiting until a RDM or a BRD and a PLD or NIN logged on and wasn't snapped up within 15 seconds by other desperate groups? There were levels when you couldn't even sub Dispel and without it, there would be no practical way of doing any form of decent experience on Robber Crab/Crawler Tedious Grindfest Mania when dealing with people with attention spans shorter than their vocabulary and bladders the size of peas (just how difficult can it be to synchronise a toilet break?).

[Jinko]

This whole talk of death penalty being required to enforce a sense of difficulty is BS to be honest.

If you join an Ifrit group or even go with LS members and die because you are a pleb the penalty is that you don't win, this is penalty enough IMO, no doubt if you continue to die or cause the group to lose they will no longer want to play with you, again penalty enough.

Obviously Primals are much harder than standard monsters, I don't think Yoshida wants to make a game where people are stressed when they play regularly, he has brought that word up many times in his posts and letters.

Fact is FF11's harsh death penalty and inability to solo monsters turned many new customers away, it would have no doubt been much more popular had it been more casual, which is what this game has set out to be from day one.

Most of us knew this game would be more casual than FF11, there were plenty of interviews prior to its launch, it seems a bit strange to know this and expect it to change now.

I'm not saying this game couldn't stand to be balanced a little more to the difficult side (mainly mob difficulty) but wanting XP death penalties and enforcing party only past lvl 10 is not where the game should be heading if it wants to be successful.

[Malachite]

Yeah, I agree with that Arcell. Death penalty isn't necessarily required, it just helps. Something I didn't mention with regards to why I'd rather a more significant death penalty has to do with immersion. I simply feel more immersed in a world where death has fairly harsh consequences. But hey, that's just me.

[Rokien]

Demon souls. Dieing puts tension in a tight spot(if you have something to lose). Makes you more alert and careful, putting strategies into your next move/attack. That's what I like about death penalties. Puts you on the edge of your seat, type of deal.

Something I said in another thread, thought it would go with you haters on death

[Jinko]

Demon souls can go die in a fire, something I just said in this thread.

[Catharsis]

The point is: It might be surprising, but some of us actually DO play FFXIV precisely because it isn't FFXI. If we wanted to play FFXI, we'd go play FFXI. Trying to satisfy everyone is akin to the fable about the old man, his son, and the donkey and I'd rather they just pleased themselves trying to make a game that they could be proud of.

I highly doubt you'd draw many people back to the game with "Come back and try FF14! We've made it more tedious, impenetrable and grindy!". People that like that usually end up playing Darkfall.

[Rokien]

This whole talk of death penalty being required to enforce a sense of difficulty is BS to be honest.

If you join an Ifrit group or even go with LS members and die because you are a pleb the penalty is that you don't win, this is penalty enough IMO, no doubt if you continue to die or cause the group to lose they will no longer want to play with you, again penalty enough.

I would have to disagree, if you can die and just retry it with no repercussions, its not a penalty. The group breaking up is not a penalty either, you can just make a new one. I don't even take ifrit seriously, if I die, I die, I don't care, there is no stress, no nothing when fighting ifrit/moogle/any mob. Why do people like Demon/Dark souls? Because of the stress, it gets em wired up and makes them feel something. People like to feel emotion, whether it be bad or good. IMO demon souls had the best death penalty. You die, have to do the level all over again, you die again, you lose all your souls(if you didn't reach it in time). NOW, the added stress of someone breaking in added even more emotion to the game. You start to panic because you have not reached your souls yet.... The game itself was easy, the combat was easy, mobs were not hard if you knew their patterns. Though even if the combat was easy, you were always worrying about dieing. So you die in cause of that.

Of course, that is just talking just for myself.

[Estellios]

We don't care about your threads Rokien.

On topic: I would just like some more involved fights and monster AI. The primal fights are great so I've got a lot of confidence that we will see some good battles down the line. All time lockouts do is screw over pickups and the cross-server tool (believe it or not there are such a thing as good pickups) or LS members that can't necessarily log on on specific days. FF11's events were generally ran twice a week and there would be people that couldn't make one of those days, but could be on every other day of the week but because you needed the most amount of people on at one time you couldn't accomodate them and they would be SOL.

But that has nothing to do with difficulty/danger so I'm not sure why that's being brought up in this thread.

[Rokien]

Well, I care about my threads, so don't say we ^.^
Just say "some people including myself."

opinion is opinion, yours is no greater than mine

[Arcell]

I would have to disagree, if you can die and just retry it with no repercussions, its not a penalty. The group breaking up is not a penalty either, you can just make a new one. I don't even take ifrit seriously, if I die, I die, I don't care, there is no stress, no nothing when fighting ifrit/moogle/any mob. Why do people like Demon/Dark souls? Because of the stress, it gets em wired up and makes them feel something. People like to feel emotion, whether it be bad or good. IMO demon souls had the best death penalty. You die, have to do the level all over again, you die again, you lose all your souls(if you didn't reach it in time). NOW, the added stress of someone breaking in added even more emotion to the game. You start to panic because you have not reached your souls yet.... The game itself was easy, the combat was easy, mobs were not hard if you knew their patterns. Though even if the combat was easy, you were always worrying about dieing. So you die in cause of that.

Of course, that is just talking just for myself.

Right and that's all well and good except Demon's Souls was created specifically for a hardcore audience who likes being mercilessly punished apparently. Final Fantasy XIV was not created with the hardcore audience in mind and even since Yoshida has taken over has continued to cater to a more casual audience than FFXI. If you want a really hardcore game, FFXIV is not it and I don't think it ever will be.