Risk Factor. Can I have it?

[OranGemeo]

I definatley agree that there is just no real strategy when it comes to fighting most mobs - which is something XI had and did it well. The system we have in place now, makes every mob feel about the same. There's honestly no point to look for an EXP camp or better mobs to kill, you just simply kill everything in your path. (Monsters go from way too easy to WTF hard and that's about it in XIV) A lot of this goes to the pace of battle we have now. I ideally think someone solo should be able to take on a mob their exact level, a group of 4 should be able to take on about 3-5 levels over, and a group of 8 about 7-9 levels over.

There are definatley some exceptions, but it's still sort of poorly executed. I will say fights like Batraal and Ogre (especially previous, Ogre is cake now) were well thought out as well as Ifrit and Moogle. Had there not been just instant rentry to the two primals, its no telling how long it would have taken for anyone to get the win. I think the instant rentry they have in place is because there is such a lack of content, that if they restricted it, people would even have less to do...

[Jinko]

There are definatley some exceptions, but it's still sort of poorly executed. I will say fights like Batraal and Ogre (especially previous, Ogre is cake now) were well thought out as well as Ifrit and Moogle. Had there not been just instant rentry to the two primals, its no telling how long it would have taken for anyone to get the win. I think the instant rentry they have in place is because there is such a lack of content, that if they restricted it, people would even have less to do...

I don't think Batraal and Ogre have been rebalanced since the patch which could be why they are so easy now.

Agree that the current re-entry timers are most likely due to lack of content.

[Jinko]

This whole talk of death penalty being required to enforce a sense of difficulty is BS to be honest.

If you join an Ifrit group or even go with LS members and die because you are a pleb the penalty is that you don't win, this is penalty enough IMO, no doubt if you continue to die or cause the group to lose they will no longer want to play with you, again penalty enough.

Obviously Primals are much harder than standard monsters, I don't think Yoshida wants to make a game where people are stressed when they play regularly, he has brought that word up many times in his posts and letters.

Fact is FF11's harsh death penalty and inability to solo monsters turned many new customers away, it would have no doubt been much more popular had it been more casual, which is what this game has set out to be from day one.

Most of us knew this game would be more casual than FF11, there were plenty of interviews prior to its launch, it seems a bit strange to know this and expect it to change now.

I'm not saying this game couldn't stand to be balanced a little more to the difficult side (mainly mob difficulty) but wanting XP death penalties and enforcing party only past lvl 10 is not where the game should be heading if it wants to be successful.

[Rokien]

This whole talk of death penalty being required to enforce a sense of difficulty is BS to be honest.

If you join an Ifrit group or even go with LS members and die because you are a pleb the penalty is that you don't win, this is penalty enough IMO, no doubt if you continue to die or cause the group to lose they will no longer want to play with you, again penalty enough.

I would have to disagree, if you can die and just retry it with no repercussions, its not a penalty. The group breaking up is not a penalty either, you can just make a new one. I don't even take ifrit seriously, if I die, I die, I don't care, there is no stress, no nothing when fighting ifrit/moogle/any mob. Why do people like Demon/Dark souls? Because of the stress, it gets em wired up and makes them feel something. People like to feel emotion, whether it be bad or good. IMO demon souls had the best death penalty. You die, have to do the level all over again, you die again, you lose all your souls(if you didn't reach it in time). NOW, the added stress of someone breaking in added even more emotion to the game. You start to panic because you have not reached your souls yet.... The game itself was easy, the combat was easy, mobs were not hard if you knew their patterns. Though even if the combat was easy, you were always worrying about dieing. So you die in cause of that.

Of course, that is just talking just for myself.

[Arcell]

I would have to disagree, if you can die and just retry it with no repercussions, its not a penalty. The group breaking up is not a penalty either, you can just make a new one. I don't even take ifrit seriously, if I die, I die, I don't care, there is no stress, no nothing when fighting ifrit/moogle/any mob. Why do people like Demon/Dark souls? Because of the stress, it gets em wired up and makes them feel something. People like to feel emotion, whether it be bad or good. IMO demon souls had the best death penalty. You die, have to do the level all over again, you die again, you lose all your souls(if you didn't reach it in time). NOW, the added stress of someone breaking in added even more emotion to the game. You start to panic because you have not reached your souls yet.... The game itself was easy, the combat was easy, mobs were not hard if you knew their patterns. Though even if the combat was easy, you were always worrying about dieing. So you die in cause of that.

Of course, that is just talking just for myself.

Right and that's all well and good except Demon's Souls was created specifically for a hardcore audience who likes being mercilessly punished apparently. Final Fantasy XIV was not created with the hardcore audience in mind and even since Yoshida has taken over has continued to cater to a more casual audience than FFXI. If you want a really hardcore game, FFXIV is not it and I don't think it ever will be.

[Rokien]

Right and that's all well and good except Demon's Souls was created specifically for a hardcore audience who likes being mercilessly punished apparently. Final Fantasy XIV was not created with the hardcore audience in mind and even since Yoshida has taken over has continued to cater to a more casual audience than FFXI. If you want a really hardcore game, FFXIV is not it and I don't think it ever will be.

LOL the biggest casual gamer I know even played demon souls and loved it!~ there for hardcore mechanics can work in a casual game ^.^
He also thinks this game is way easy. Even though he doesn't like to put effort into it.

[Arcell]

LOL the biggest casual gamer I know even played demon souls and loved it!~ there for hardcore mechanics can work in a casual game ^.^
He also thinks this game is way easy. Even though he doesn't like to put effort into it.

Okay, good for you. You know someone who likes the game. Doesn't change the fact that this game was not created with a hardcore audience in mind.

That's not to say we don't need more difficult content, however timesinks and masochistic death penalties do not equal difficulty. More challenging mob AI, longer fights and fights that require strategy and thinking are difficult.

[Rokien]

Demon souls. Dieing puts tension in a tight spot(if you have something to lose). Makes you more alert and careful, putting strategies into your next move/attack. That's what I like about death penalties. Puts you on the edge of your seat, type of deal.

Something I said in another thread, thought it would go with you haters on death

[Jinko]

Demon souls can go die in a fire, something I just said in this thread.

[Catharsis]

The point is: It might be surprising, but some of us actually DO play FFXIV precisely because it isn't FFXI. If we wanted to play FFXI, we'd go play FFXI. Trying to satisfy everyone is akin to the fable about the old man, his son, and the donkey and I'd rather they just pleased themselves trying to make a game that they could be proud of.

I highly doubt you'd draw many people back to the game with "Come back and try FF14! We've made it more tedious, impenetrable and grindy!". People that like that usually end up playing Darkfall.