Risk Factor. Can I have it?

[Arcell]

It's because THAT's what makes success more rewarding. It's because you face a dreaded penalty that you don't want to die. That's what made death respectable in FFXI, and added extra adrenaline to fights.

And I'm sick of people using the term time sink as if it's a bad thing, it's not. If things weren't spoon fed to everybody then the game would feel rewarding. If Ifrit/Moogle were once a week fights but guaranteed a drop people would not be as sick of them as they are after their 100th fight.

I don't get how that makes things more rewarding but I guess we're just on completely different wavelengths there. I consider a win a win, if I didn't die it really doesn't matter what the penalty was. Honestly it just pisses me off more when I do die knowing that I've lost even more than my own time.

If Ifrit/Moogle were once a week fights I would not have a single win yet lol. There are good timesinks and bad ones, XP loss and level down were not good ones. Every death is precious time wasted, lost forever. Work and effort down the drain for no reason.

If anything all of what you said further encourages class stacking and all as it promotes using the path of least resistance, the easiest party build/strategy. If people are afraid of death they'll resort to any methods to avoid it, even shunning all non-conventional strategies. People wouldn't try different things since it could end in death which everyone is afraid of. It stifles creativity in strategies and builds.

[Rokien]

I don't get how that makes things more rewarding but I guess we're just on completely different wavelengths there. I consider a win a win, if I didn't die it really doesn't matter what the penalty was. Honestly it just pisses me off more when I do die knowing that I've lost even more than my own time.

If Ifrit/Moogle were once a week fights I would not have a single win yet lol. There are good timesinks and bad ones, XP loss and level down were not good ones. Every death is precious time wasted, lost forever. Work and effort down the drain for no reason.

If anything all of what you said further encourages class stacking and all as it promotes using the path of least resistance, the easiest party build/strategy. If people are afraid of death they'll resort to any methods to avoid it, even shunning all non-conventional strategies. People wouldn't try different things since it could end in death which everyone is afraid of. It stifles creativity in strategies and builds.

lol Go play Demon souls.......... gosh...........death awaits all on that game ALSO losing 1000000souls SUCKS!~ and deleveling, it was one of the best games ever!~

[Jinko]

And I'm sick of people using the term time sink as if it's a bad thing, it's not. If things weren't spoon fed to everybody then the game would feel rewarding. If Ifrit/Moogle were once a week fights but guaranteed a drop people would not be as sick of them as they are after their 100th fight.

Agree with this.

There are good and bad ways to do time sinks, FF11 did it badly, WoW does it fairly well.

I'd like to see weekly content with better chances of rewards and most importantly the choice to distribute the loot.

If Ifrit/Moogle were once a week fights I would not have a single win yet lol.

Why not you can keep trying til you win, you would only be locked out for the week if you killed him.

[Arcell]

Agree with this.

There are good and bad ways to do time sinks, FF11 did it badly, WoW does it fairly well.

I'd like to see weekly content with better chances of rewards and most importantly the choice to distribute the loot.



Why not you can keep trying til you win, you would only be locked out for the week if you killed him.

Ah wasn't aware that the lockout only occurs on a win. Either way it seems a little excessive to me but that's just me.

[Lux_Rayna]

It's because THAT's what makes success more rewarding. It's because you face a dreaded penalty that you don't want to die. That's what made death respectable in FFXI, and added extra adrenaline to fights.

And I'm sick of people using the term time sink as if it's a bad thing, it's not. If things weren't spoon fed to everybody then the game would feel rewarding. If Ifrit/Moogle were once a week fights but guaranteed a drop people would not be as sick of them as they are after their 100th fight.

I honestly disagree. I don't think harsher penalties make success any more rewarding, unless you honestly don't care about succeeding and only care about avoiding peril. Imo success is success, the only thing that determines how great that success feels is the challenge. Greatest example is, say a really difficult crossword puzzle. OR maybe a ridiculously hard game of sudoku. Or maybe being able to spin a basketball on your finger. Heck, how about making it into the NBA? None of those things have a harsh penalty for failure (unless you were a dropout). Despite this, success still feels overwhelmingly good. Of course if you're an adrenaline junkie, you need high risks. Though any real adrenaline junkie wouldnt be playing MMO's to get his fix (though some do and claim hardcore status..makes me lol).

I agree with needing challenge, but challenge can't come until the mechanics of the game are finished. I also think only some things should be particularly challenging, others moderately challenging, and the rest relatively easy or mildly difficult. Not everyone can play an MMO 6-7 hours a day. In fact, the ppl most able to pay for the game are the ones with the least amount of time: college students and working adults. Of course kids can play too with parental financial support, but imo final fantasy built its fanbase on the kids that are now college students or adults in the workforce.

An isolated time sink is not bad...for example, achievements are great. But an entire game should NOT be a time sink, that is just terrible. Again, it isolates the ppl most able to pay for the game. Imo time sinks are a cheap way to add value to something that doesn't have value. Ppl should invest a lot of time into a game because it's fun, rewarding, or challenging. That's just the bottom line. Making anything take a ridiculous amount of time due to poor rng, ridiculously low drop rates, or crazy xp requirements is just cheap. It says "this isn't actually worth your time, so we're going to force you to put more time into it." Lazy lazy lazy. But again, I say, some time sinks are good. I just don't feel the entire game shoudl be one huge time sink. That is just a waste of time.

[Darkillumina]

I've already said what I needed to say in the past few pages (thanks for the many likes) but I do want to add/ask one thing.

Everyone makes such a big deal about the death penalty and how detrimental it was to FFXI but the number of times I died were relatively miniscule and were mostly due to player error that I corrected the next time I did whatever it was I was doing. I was also prepared for any journey with adequate silent/invis potions.

By the replies it seems like people were dying constantly and losing experience like crazy. I really think the problem was/is exaggerated by some. Or people just weren't careful and didn't make adequate preparation for whatever it was they were doing.

I do think the game needs to be more difficult (see my post a few pages back) I wouldn't complain either way if the death penalty was instated or left alone.

But I think we can all agree, the best part about the death penalty is that it kept people from bailing from a party immediately when they dinged as most wanted that buffer. This meant that someone else close to leveling wouldn't get shafted as is quite common in current mmo's where people get what they want/ding then bail on their team.

[Khal_Drogo]

I honestly disagree. I don't think harsher penalties make success any more rewarding, unless you honestly don't care about succeeding and only care about avoiding peril. Imo success is success, the only thing that determines how great that success feels is the challenge. Greatest example is, say a really difficult crossword puzzle. OR maybe a ridiculously hard game of sudoku. Or maybe being able to spin a basketball on your finger. Heck, how about making it into the NBA? None of those things have a harsh penalty for failure (unless you were a dropout). Despite this, success still feels overwhelmingly good. Of course if you're an adrenaline junkie, you need high risks. Though any real adrenaline junkie wouldnt be playing MMO's to get his fix (though some do and claim hardcore status..makes me lol).

Ok, sorry to say this, but those are horrible analogies. What makes that success so rewarding is that it's so hard to achieve. It's not hard to level. It's not hard to spam your abilities/attacks. And, thus, it's not hard to achieve anything in this game right now. And there are* usually penalties for failing to make it to the NBA and failure to achieve a lot of the success ppl seek out. Most of those ppl build their whole lives off of that plan. They make plans around it. If they fail, they may not have anything else. They may condemn themselves to a life of mediocrity by failing.

But, anyway, that's not the point. XIV isn't the NBA; it isn't a "hard game of sudoku;" and it sure as hell isn't "spinning a basketball on your finger." XIV is an MMORPG, and while their can't be a "game over" and a loss of w/e progress since you last saved, there should still be some sort of penalty for failing to measure up to your fellow-players.

Otherwise, as mentioned earlier, there's nothing to stop ppl from continuing to suck. They get to maintain their levels; they get to leech spots in end-game fights even if they've died enough to be several levels under what they need to be; they waste the time of the ppl they party with b/c they can't perform well; and they whine and b#%^ everytime someone mentions how much of a burden they are on the party.

Exp-loss/deleveling is one of the MANY features from XI that needs to be initiated in XIV in order to maintain any sort of "ranking system." It also gives ppl a reason to focus more instead of just playing half-a$$ed.

[Rokien]

Going to post another handy dandy Rokien thread http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...us....-kinda..

[Ainilome]

If I could like this OP more than once I would.

[Jinko]

I'm down for more challenging content, but don't want them to change the solo aspect of the game either.

I am hoping the new instances will be challenging, one of the biggest issues I had with Darkhold is that you could train the trash mobs, I hope they don't allow this in the new ones.

I would like to see the instances become a good alternative to XP parties, especially the low to mid range ones.

Anyone know what level the 2 new dungeons will be ? 45+ I am assuming.

Darkhold didn't require skill it required you RUNNING through it because the spawn rate was so fast you had no choice but to do so. Running through a dungeon is not skill.

Exactly this shouldn't happen, monsters should only re-spawn if your whole party exits the dungeon.

Many people are bringing up FFXI and I don't want to see that kind of difficulty in this game, its the kind of difficulty that turns players away.

As someone said above the difference between difficult and obnoxious.