Risk Factor. Can I have it?

[Riaayo]

There needs to be some kind of other risk involved with failing to consider your situation before acting AKA: Dieing.

Is the time you wasted fighting only to fail, and then running / teleporting back to the spot and waiting on your weakened not penalty for you? I consider MY time to be worth something, so needless to say I find that when I screw up a fight and potentially have to take several minutes to just get back that's punishment enough. I do not need to go re-farm some exp buffer for an hour or 2 like in XI. That was garbage and if you want that back I just don't even... what is the deal with people wanting games to punish them for failure?

Just make it hard, don't make it kick you in the balls AFTER it already beat you up.

[Rokien]

Is the time you wasted fighting only to fail, and then running / teleporting back to the spot and waiting on your weakened not penalty for you? I consider MY time to be worth something, so needless to say I find that when I screw up a fight and potentially have to take several minutes to just get back that's punishment enough. I do not need to go re-farm some exp buffer for an hour or 2 like in XI. That was garbage and if you want that back I just don't even... what is the deal with people wanting games to punish them for failure?

Just make it hard, don't make it kick you in the balls AFTER it already beat you up.

go play demon souls/dark souls..... Thats what I want for punishment! I wanna throw my controller, I wanna get mad! It makes me try even harder next time!~ As I said, people wanna feel something, they don't wanna be a droid. With great frustration comes great happiness.

There are TONS and TONS of casual games out there, they are becoming the norm because it brings in money. Game companies need to stop catering to people and make stuff unique and not just think about money. Demon souls was one of those games. I want ffxiv to be one as well, even if it has a small crowd.

[Arcell]

go play demon souls/dark souls..... Thats what I want for punishment! I wanna throw my controller, I wanna get mad! It makes me try even harder next time!~ As I said, people wanna feel something, they don't wanna be a droid. With great frustration comes great happiness.

There are TONS and TONS of casual games out there, they are becoming the norm because it brings in money. Game companies need to stop catering to people and make stuff unique and not just think about money. Demon souls was one of those games. I want ffxiv to be one as well, even if it has a small crowd.

Hate to tell you but that wasn't the goal from the outset and even Yoshida hasn't pushed the game in that direction. They're not just gonna do a 180 on their target audience at this point. Again I highly suggest finding a game that caters to your demographic instead of trying to change this game into one.

[Riaayo]

go play demon souls/dark souls..... Thats what I want for punishment! I wanna throw my controller, I wanna get mad! It makes me try even harder next time!~ As I said, people wanna feel something, they don't wanna be a droid. With great frustration comes great happiness.

There are TONS and TONS of casual games out there, they are becoming the norm because it brings in money. Game companies need to stop catering to people and make stuff unique and not just think about money. Demon souls was one of those games. I want ffxiv to be one as well, even if it has a small crowd.

Controllers are expensive, I don't really want to throw it. If you enjoy being angry and pissed off at a game to the point of yelling then that's fine I guess, everyone has their own thing, but I play games and mmos to have fun with friends and enjoy myself, and being in a situation where a game has shit on us so hard that we are all mad, pissy, cursing or even yelling is not fun or enjoyable or anything but extremely unpleasant to deal with. I WANT hard encounters, I like bosses that are tough and not everyone can kill. But I should not de-lvl because I tried fighting it. FFXI's punishment for dieing meant I didn't go do fun things, I didn't try to solo this mob or that because the punishment if I failed was more of a burden than the fun I got out of trying. It essentially strangled the game.

Also, repair costs do not exist to punish you for dieing, they exist to pull money out of the economy. Again, punishment for not playing smart / dieing is that you don't win, that you waste time and have to try again... and if you keep doing poorly, you're not going to beat it. I think that works, and it's not "casual gaming." I can't even think of any game I have ever played other than FFXI that took things away from me in such a depressing way just because of a mistake.

Furthermore, SE wants to make money, and the more people that play this game the more money they will get. It's stupid to try and release a massive-scale mmo to a tiny audience; they would NEVER have even developed it if that was the goal.

By all means, add difficult bosses and hard content. Make that content kick our asses; but leave that ass kicking to our deaths; wasted time; and continued trial and error, not to making me go grind even more (a mechanic that needs to go away all-together) for something I ALREADY achieved.

[Khal_Drogo]

Controllers are expensive, I don't really want to throw it. If you enjoy being angry and pissed off at a game to the point of yelling then that's fine I guess, everyone has their own thing, but I play games and mmos to have fun with friends and enjoy myself, and being in a situation where a game has shit on us so hard that we are all mad, pissy, cursing or even yelling is not fun or enjoyable or anything but extremely unpleasant to deal with. I WANT hard encounters, I like bosses that are tough and not everyone can kill. But I should not de-lvl because I tried fighting it. FFXI's punishment for dieing meant I didn't go do fun things, I didn't try to solo this mob or that because the punishment if I failed was more of a burden than the fun I got out of trying. It essentially strangled the game.

Also, repair costs do not exist to punish you for dieing, they exist to pull money out of the economy. Again, punishment for not playing smart / dieing is that you don't win, that you waste time and have to try again... and if you keep doing poorly, you're not going to beat it. I think that works, and it's not "casual gaming." I can't even think of any game I have ever played other than FFXI that took things away from me in such a depressing way just because of a mistake.

Furthermore, SE wants to make money, and the more people that play this game the more money they will get. It's stupid to try and release a massive-scale mmo to a tiny audience; they would NEVER have even developed it if that was the goal.

By all means, add difficult bosses and hard content. Make that content kick our asses; but leave that ass kicking to our deaths; wasted time; and continued trial and error, not to making me go grind even more (a mechanic that needs to go away all-together) for something I ALREADY achieved.

Hence, my compromise. Hell, keep repairing/deterioration if you want, BUT exp loss needs to be there. Otherwise, there's no accountability. Nobody gives a sh%^ if they die -hell, they can make strategies around it. At the very least, exp loss, but some kind of deleveling "cap" (like "limit breaks" in XI that, rather than allow you to push forward, they keep you from degressing). At worst, no deleveling at all.


Anyway, there needs to be something about dying that REALLY deters ppl from doing so, or they won't make as much of an effort to stay alive. Or worse, as mentioned earlier, they'll find away to exploit it.

[Visgal]

Yes, i also don't want it to be brutal and hell. Just harder~

Getting to certain places while avoiding level 80 mobs, primals, entering strongholds -on your own- is fun. For me atleast, since it has a higher level of difficulty and can go very bad very quick if you mess up.
Well, i can't do primals on my own <_< But they can be taken down with wits, but can go downhill too with ease and that's when the fun begins, when you need to find a way to recover!

Being put in tough, dangerous situations and making it gives a nice sense of achievement.

[Avraym]

Yes, i also don't want it to be brutal and hell. Just harder~

Getting to certain places while avoiding level 80 mobs, primals, entering strongholds -on your own- is fun. For me atleast, since it has a higher level of difficulty and can go very bad very quick if you mess up.
Well, i can't do primals on my own <_< But they can be taken down with wits, but can go downhill too with ease and that's when the fun begins, when you need to find a way to recover!

Being put in tough, dangerous situations and making it gives a nice sense of achievement.

True. I can't count how many times our mog/ifrit parties looked over and we somehow turned it around (Moreso upon release)

[Arcell]

More challenging content? Sure. Though we should probably let them get all the drastic game changes out of the way first so that all is balanced well enough. With the way everything's been changing since 1.18 it's hard to keep something challenging. Once things settle down I'll agree I'd like to see more challenging content. Though there is a difference between challenging and difficult in an obnoxious way.

However I don't think we need to be punished further for death. The old death penalty was almost nothing and this is adequate. You should not want to die because death is indicative of failure and you don't want to be a failure, correct? I mean what happened to playing well simply for the sake of playing well? Playing well for the sake of not sucking or bringing the team down? Do we really need to be masochistically punished for simply dying which is sometimes not directly our fault?

Though also to be fair this game was always initially created for and continually caters to the more casual audience. This doesn't mean content itself must be easy but it must be accessible and penalties for failure are generally lower.

[Merylstryfe]

P

More challenging content? Sure. Though we should probably let them get all the drastic game changes out of the way first so that all is balanced well enough. With the way everything's been changing since 1.18 it's hard to keep something challenging. Once things settle down I'll agree I'd like to see more challenging content. Though there is a difference between challenging and difficult in an obnoxious way.

However I don't think we need to be punished further for death. The old death penalty was almost nothing and this is adequate. You should not want to die because death is indicative of failure and you don't want to be a failure, correct? I mean what happened to playing well simply for the sake of playing well? Playing well for the sake of not sucking or bringing the team down? Do we really need to be masochistically punished for simply dying which is sometimes not directly our fault?

Though also to be fair this game was always initially created for and continually caters to the more casual audience. This doesn't mean content itself must be easy but it must be accessible and penalties for failure are generally lower.

I agree with your points.
Once battle content balance is finalized, there should be some sort of re-evaluation of old content to make things more challenging. I hate to point to WoW, but something that it does is create "smart" challenges. The combat and enemies don't have to be super difficult, but they should make you think. Right now theres about as much thought put into raids/ dungeons as solo leve grinding. At least primals require strategy.

At the same time,the casual audience should be the focus, but in more of a convenience factor, not content.

[Visgal]

There is indeed a difference from challenging to obnoxiousness. And that's what i hope they can find.

I fully support Yoshi-san and the crew and i trust them to figure it out in their busy schedule.