New Player: Critical Observations

[TypeZ]

Hello! First off a few caveats: I will not mention things that will be implemented/fixed with 2.0. I realize this game is getting revamped and it is redundant to moan about things that will be fixed. Secondly this may be a bit long and for that my apologies. Third, I make comparisons to FFXI. This should not come as a surprise as that game was the predecessor to this installment.

Background: Launch FFXI player until about 2007, a few other MMO's sprinkled in, 30 minute beta tester for FXIV.

So I joined this game about 2 weeks ago after hearing about the plethora of changes that have occurred since Beta. I must say I am enjoying the game but I would like to bring light to some things being done well and some things that need improvement down the road.

Leveling

While I enjoy the fact that the game isn't punishing like launch FFXI was, I feel that DOW/DOM leveling is way to fast. For instance, recent low level dungeons such as Shposhrae have been implemented but you level so fast that it is pointless to even bother with many of them. This in turn creates problems for the dev team as they have to constantly pump out end-game content to placate the player-base.

When a MMO becomes so top heavy that low level content is essentially worthless retention issues start to occur if the devs cannot keep up with end game content. With the arrival of 2.0 I believe that leveling should be scaled back for the new players in order to better facilitate the use of low level dungeons/quests. When a game simply becomes about end-game gear I would argue, -though opinions may differ- that the game itself begins to stagnate. I personally hate a gear grind more than a level grind.

Let us compare the leveling system with launch FFXI until about 2007. Let me get this out of the way first; launch FFXI was too punishing and should not be totally replicated, however the pacing and content available on the trek to 75 was valuable and worth doing. If FFXIV really wants to differentiate itself from the plethora of WOW clones they should not be focused on blasting the new users to 50 as quickly as possible. Instead they should create a system akin to FFXI's that actively promotes low level content and creates roadblocks on the path to 50 that requires teamwork to surpass.

Let me state that I am not advocating for this game to be FFXI in HD, rather I am pointing out that FFXI made the journey to 75 -as 'grindy' as it was- varied and interesting. It wasn't an easy journey to 75 but there were limit break quests, AF quests, BCNMs and various other activities that made the game enjoyable. I never once felt in 2004 and 2005 that I needed to be at 75 to enjoy the game to the fullest.

For perspective, I have GLD at 20, MRD at 23, Armorer at 20, Mining at 21, Blacksmithing at 17, carpentry and botany at 15 in less than 2 weeks of casual play. I think there is something fundamentally wrong here that needs to be addressed.

Battle System

While I realize this is getting revamped in 2.0 there are some criticisms I would like to make.

The first problem is that I really feel no sense of urgency or danger in battle. In FFXI, fighting 'Incredibly Tough' monsters was extremely dangerous. A link at the wrong time could wipe your group, a blown skill-chain could extend the battle to deadly lengths. Here, whenever I am grouped with 7 other adventurers it feels like we are a tank rolling over straw huts. In FFXI preparation was everything and character death was a very real possibility no matter what level you were; in FFXIV you just wander around wherever you go like a maelstrom of death and destruction.

The second problem I have is with the revamped skill system. Quite frankly it feels like I am playing WoW, DCUO or any other MMO based off the Warcraft model. I assign a ability, press 1, 2, 3 ect and watch my character utilize a various skill. When I am grouped up it feels even worse. It seems as if everyone is spamming attacks with impunity Again, I think this game can learn something from early FFXI going forward.

Skill-chains (SC) for instance in FFXI were a great way to promote teamwork and cooperation between party members. If you failed to do this, you failed to level efficiently. If you spammed your skills you got yourself killed. To succeed a firm knowledge of the battle system was required. The addition of SC to FFXIV would go a long way toward actively involving the player in the battle.

I would also try and reduce the party maximum to 6 or 5. With a party of 8 it feels like a giant cluster**** and is made even worse by the fact that everyone is just spamming skills to kill them as quickly as possible. Slow it down, it won't kill us. For end-game, alliances of 12 or 10 could be made available to topple a particularly tough challenge.

I also like how FFXI enforced partying on us. To progress we had to party unless we were BST. I do understand that this is not palatable in this day and age and thus promote a compromise.

Grouping should be the best choice if you want to level in this game going forward with 2.0. Most mobs past 15 in various zones should require a group to kill much like they did in FFXI.

"But we should have the ability to play how we want/solo."

I agree whole-heartily and that is where Leves should come in. Leves should be done only solo or in a pair and when spawned put you in an instance or spawn instanced monsters on the map that can be killed solo to complete the leve. The rewards and exp should not be comparable to grouping but it should be enough to keep you busy and progressing toward the next level while looking for a group. This solution prevents the game from turning into the waiting game that FFXI was at times for certain jobs.

If they decide to implement SC, they should also implement weapon skill levels. FFXI erred in the fact that you only leveled on certain monsters due to the danger most presented. If certain types are weak to certain chains it means that a party can change its leveling location and enemy type based on the job/class of the SC'ing members of the party. This prevents certain classes being ostracized such as DRK and DRG were around 2005 until they hit 66.

Crafting

I have no real issues with crafting in this game. In every MMO I've played, crafting has been a chore and FFXIV has tried to change that up. I would like to suggest that since pressing enter so many times is monotonous there should be a system in place that crafts a low level item automatically without needing the mini-game to be set-up. Even hasty-handing gets monotonous after awhile.

Apparently a revamp of the crafting system is en-route so that is all I have to say about this subject.

Loot + Gathering

The economy appears to be in shambles at the moment with little value placed on gil. Part of me enjoys the fact that I don't need to have millions of millions of gil to obtain certain items but economically it is terrible for the game. Even if an AH is implemented it will not solve the supply problem.

As it currently stands materials are a piece of cake to gather. There is an abundance of everything which creates little demand, since everyone can gather whatever they want in relatively little time.

In FFXI, I personally was a miner. I mined where most people wouldn't and thus felt like I was a contributing member of the economy. I wasn't a high level crafter, but myself and a few others went to great lengths to gather the materials needed that crafters would buy to make certain objects. Many of these crafters alternatively, did not venture into Ifrit's Cauldron or the Gustav Mines to whittle away a day mining ore and raw materials.

From the low levels farming crystals, to the crazed miners braving Ifrit's Cauldron, everyone contributed to the economy. While the current system dissuades RMT to an extent it effectively kills any semblance of economy.

Conclusion

This post may come off as negative to some people but the points listed above are really just suggestions put forward to the dev team that could help in creating a vastly different user experience from the plethora of WOW clones on the market today.

As a new player, the good currently outweighs the bad and I see myself sticking around for 2.0. I like the direction the game is going and applaud the grueling hours put in by the dev team in order to fix this game and redeem the reputation that was lost at launch.

If you got through this thanks for reading. While you may not agree with my points, at the very least it will create dialogue that will lead to even better ideas down the road.

I will edit this for grammatical errors tomorrow. If it is sloppy as of the current writing please forgive me for it is quite late!

I agree with u 100% dude. especially for the battling system/ skill bar and the game heading towards high end content and gear grind. Party sized really need to be cut to 5 or 6 also. Devs just need to copy/paste this post in their office now

[AngryNixon]

Another one of these?...

Conclusion:

More "dialogue" on topics beaten to a pulp is definitely the answer. Nothing rehashed for the millionth time here~ Not talking in circles at all.

Let's start a conversation about the lack of mailboxes again, I think it's been about a week.

[Tezz_Xivectro]

Another one of these?...

Conclusion:

More "dialogue" on topics beaten to a pulp is definitely the answer. Nothing rehashed for the millionth time here~ Not talking in circles at all.

Let's start a conversation about the lack of mailboxes again, I think it's been about a week.

No mailboxes till 2013. It'll be some good lulz once 2.0 hits & everyone quits over this 1 thing. w

[HiirNoivl]

Another one of these?...

Conclusion:

More "dialogue" on topics beaten to a pulp is definitely the answer. Nothing rehashed for the millionth time here~ Not talking in circles at all.

Let's start a conversation about the lack of mailboxes again, I think it's been about a week.

Nixon's Law: Once we've discussed something once, we shall never discuss it ever again!

[Elgeron]

Thanks for sharing your opinion, its alway good to hear the opinions of new players!.

Uh...but so many threads like this are starting to feel a little ridiculous, I think it would be better if new players wrote their opinions in one thread.

[Jinko]

Levelling

I don't want to see roadblocks to levelling like genkia, they were fun in 11 but if you couldn't get a group it was just a hindrance.

I agree that levelling is too fast and that low to mid content seems a bit wasted due to this, that being said I am a fan of gear grind at end game (only if gear is worth getting, which currently it isn't), and Yoshida has said that he is happy with designing a game where players get to end game fast.

Lets not forget that 50 is not end game and he has made some hints to a possible cap increase after 1.21.

Battle

Agree with you the standard monsters and leves are too easy, but this content is meant for solo play.

Going to a stronghold camp for example is much harder and lvl 45-50 content (mainly Primals) has its challenge as well.

I don't agree to enforcing party play either, some people just don't have the time to find a party, it was one of the worst aspects of FF11, because if you only had 1-2 hours to play you didn't want to waste someone else's time and if you made a group you felt as if you were forced to play for 5-6 hours or more.

Levelling in a group is much faster than soloing so there are incentives.

You suggest making leves main solo content (they already are) but there is no easy way to make leve mobs easier than standard mobs (or vice versa) as monsters work on base stats x lvl, it would require leve monsters being much lower level which would effect the XP you get, in turn making the content worthless, they could make leve mobs have different stats to regular mobs but this would require more work for the dev team.

Leves are already slower XP than partying, although perhaps not at low levels.

Gathering

As someone else suggested in the last patch certain items were scaled back to only provide 1 item per attempt, in turn reducing the overall supply of materials. (I imagine this is work in progress and will continue to be monitored)

Gil is still too easy to come by but the dev team are working on this with gil sinks and such, as above I expect they are still working out ways to solve the issue.

Conclusion

Your post is a good one although comes across wanting the game to follow too strongly in FFXI foosteps, I can appreciate the want to have things feel familiar I also played FFXI for 5 years but after a while you will learn to except that the game is what it is.

I thinks its really important that dev team don't try to make this game too much like 11 as it should stand on its own and Yoshida does seem to be doing a good job of changing the game for the better.

[TypeZ]

Levelling

I don't want to see roadblocks to levelling like genkia, they were fun in 11 but if you couldn't get a group it was just a hindrance.

I agree that levelling is too fast and that low to mid content seems a bit wasted due to this, that being said I am a fan of gear grind at end game (only if gear is worth getting, which currently it isn't), and Yoshida has said that he is happy with designing a game where players get to end game fast.

Lets not forget that 50 is not end game and he has made some hints to a possible cap increase after 1.21.

Battle

Agree with you the standard monsters and leves are too easy, but this content is meant for solo play.

Going to a stronghold camp for example is much harder and lvl 45-50 content (mainly Primals) has its challenge as well.

I don't agree to enforcing party play either, some people just don't have the time to find a party, it was one of the worst aspects of FF11, because if you only had 1-2 hours to play you didn't want to waste someone else's time and if you made a group you felt as if you were forced to play for 5-6 hours or more.

Levelling in a group is much faster than soloing so there are incentives.

You suggest making leves main solo content (they already are) but there is no easy way to make leve mobs easier than standard mobs (or vice versa) as monsters work on base stats x lvl, it would require leve monsters being much lower level which would effect the XP you get, in turn making the content worthless, they could make leve mobs have different stats to regular mobs but this would require more work for the dev team.

Leves are already slower XP than partying, although perhaps not at low levels.

Gathering

As someone else suggested in the last patch certain items were scaled back to only provide 1 item per attempt, in turn reducing the overall supply of materials. (I imagine this is work in progress and will continue to be monitored)

Gil is still too easy to come by but the dev team are working on this with gil sinks and such, as above I expect they are still working out ways to solve the issue.

Conclusion

Your post is a good one although comes across wanting the game to follow too strongly in FFXI foosteps, I can appreciate the want to have things feel familiar I also played FFXI for 5 years but after a while you will learn to except that the game is what it is.

I thinks its really important that dev team don't try to make this game too much like 11 as it should stand on its own and Yoshida does seem to be doing a good job of changing the game for the better.

What can i say... You read his post and u still some here and write some anti- FFXI stuff? Another irrelevant post. (FFXIV launch) See what what happen when an FF title try to be different? I really would rather they copy FFXI than to listen to some X WoW player.

[Orsnoire]

Another new player's experience:

I love that this game allows me to have my life, and still come on and get some decent progress in leveling in a relatively short guildleve period. Yeah, I know, I'm not playing it "right" to blast through content as fast as I can to superfastultrahurryfasterfasterfaster to level cap, but I've, as a new player, gone in and personally experienced all the low level content I can find, and I'm loving this game.

I think the problem is the mindset people have that they have to hurryhurryhurry to level cap, and don't go and experience content for the sheer joy of seeing/experiencing something new.

tl;dr: The problem isn't the content available, or the game design, the problem is player mindset.

[Krausus]

You're absolutely right, and I'm not debating PL, but I'm saying it must go once 2.0 is introduced or keep it and forever forget about low level content. Just like to-to-rak, there is absolutely no reason for that dungeon. I suggest since SE got the assets, scrap it and put level 60+ mobs in it and make it a lvl50 dungeon.

actually there is a bout a 1000 reasons to do to-to-rak not counting gear and achievements but the seals alone is enough reason to do it if you want to get your chocobo early on.

[AngryNixon]

Nixon's Law: Once we've discussed something once, we shall never discuss it ever again!

Wow I have laws? Nice. Thank you Hiir. That's a good one though.

If I did have laws I don't think it would be that exactly. It would be more like.

"
Nixon's Law on Forums, 1st ed.

1. Once discussed, topics shall not be raised again, other than:

(a) If the OP refers to previous discussions on the topic with proper citation used to acknowledge that the topic has been discussed at length, and how the OP's post differs from or adds to the current discussion;

(b) By way of necro-bumping the original discussion or the most relevant discussion where applicable once having searched it out on the forums, thereby contributing ideas to the already present debate.

2. In all cases the forum goer will make every attempt to not post identical topics in the forums in order to preserve a level of forum cleanliness and order and to avoid discussion at cross-purposes or along multiple parallel lines.

Definition(s):

necro bumping: The practice of posting in an old/dated post thereby returning the topic to the first page for reconsideration or consideration anew based on new/novel thoughts/ideas.

"