I don't understand BLU defenders

[Aylis]

While I agree with some of your sentiment, telling people their argument is not valid is a pretty poor way to go about it.

Except it is, like I said MMO just means Mass Multiplayer Online. You're just sharing the world with others that maybe looking for the same experience with others that maybe looking for a different experience.

Yes all jobs can solo in the open world, I did all my open world content solo as a SCH and never once felt threatened by anything in the open world. However I'm not talking about just the open world, I'm talking about the whole game. Yes there's nothing stopping me right now from going in unsynced and doing any form of old content either alone or with a friend or two and plow through it. That's missing half the fun of the solo experience. The fun being "yes I can do this, yes I can do this when its not a steamroll" Maybe we don't actually want to break it up with a que, maybe some of us don't really even care about the que. Maybe for us the fun comes from being able to do the content at level without relying on others just to see how far we can go. To really test ourselves when we have no one to rely on but ourselves. Any player can fit into group content and probably win. Doing the same thing solo however is where the test of skill comes in and it's a test I'm very much looking forward to taking.

You're right though, I don't get that option as a BLU as per queing via DF and only have PF and friends to go on as far as playing with others go. However as a BLU from what I understand so far of it I have the option that none of the other jobs classes or roles have at level. That maybe I don't need PF or relying on friends to do this content, maybe I can do it alone.

Time will tell though and we will see what happens when the class is introduced.

[Melichoir]

You're right though, I don't get that option as a BLU as per queing via DF and only have PF and friends to go on as far as playing with others go. However as a BLU from what I understand so far of it I have the option that none of the other jobs classes or roles have at level. That maybe I don't need PF or relying on friends to do this content, maybe I can do it alone.

You know, people miss this point when they talk about limiting itll be. That perspective does matter. BLU will be able to do things other classes cannot, short of being overleveled/geared.


And the wierd thing about the "It's an MMO" argument is there is an underlying idea that you are required to play with other people in all the content, or youre not doing it right.

Sometimes, and this might be weird for some people, you just want to hop onto your favorite fantasy world and do your own thing, and not worry about interacting with other people.

[Kayokane]

Sometimes, and this might be weird for some people, you just want to hop onto your favorite fantasy world and do your own thing, and not worry about interacting with other people.

I don't know how many times I've popped into eureka to get random invites when I just want to slap some wolves by the bunny FATE. (Too bad its almost always taken these days, so I can't do it as often. T-T)

[Rita1989]

Sometimes, and this might be weird for some people, you just want to hop onto your favorite fantasy world and do your own thing, and not worry about interacting with other people.

You can do that already with current jobs though.

It might be weird for you but some people like to be able to play a job they connect with and join with friends and do current content.

[Melichoir]

You can do that already with current jobs though.

It might be weird for you but some people like to be able to play a job they connect with and join with friends and do current content.

BLU, on implementation will be current content. Which youll be able to do with friends. What you wont be able to do is end game content. There is a difference there.

And, this being speculation, I am assuming there will be special BLU ONLY content. So theres that.

[Valdegarde]

I think my biggest problem with the logic of defenders of this implementation of Blue Mage is the assumption that....the rest of the game is terrible, FFXIV is going downhill, dungeons/raids/alliances/everything battle classes can do is horrible and dull, all the other jobs are stale and nobody likes them, and Blue Mage is the turning point in a game that is a massive chore.

I may have had my own criticisms over the years, but I still love the overall game and new trials and raids and things added, and find it fun to see what jobs they implement next. I try to play and level all classes because I find something fun and unique about every single one (ehh...maybe not SB Machinist...)

We're playing FFXIV, there's no reason to expect the basis of the game to suddenly do a massive 180 to accommodate people that hate the rest of it, and even still there's things like Eureka that address that. Why does Blue Mage have to be the sacrifice?

I've had a few days to think and I feel like I'm still pretty upset, but willing to see where I can try and influence the dev team to allow Blue Mage to have a normal aspect once conditions are met. That way both sides of the fence are satisfied. What I can't get over are people who think it's a zero sum battle between "raiders" and the rest of the playerbase.

[Rita1989]

BLU, on implementation will be current content. Which youll be able to do with friends. What you wont be able to do is end game content. There is a difference there.

And, this being speculation, I am assuming there will be special BLU ONLY content. So theres that.

Mask Carnival is solo content meaning you can't do it with others and besides that it's limited to 50 cap stuff which basically no one does outside of roulette that Blue is locked from and unsynced.

[Lucke]

Job quests would obviously teach non-monster skills (BLUs don't just use monster skills only y'know)
As an Example (Cause let's face it, SE prolly isn't gonna do this)
Level 1: Learn (Learns a BLU spell from targeted enemy. Each monster has a base % of teaching the BLU their spell/ability. This % improves the lower HP the monster has. 0% at 100% HP, like 25-30% at critical)
Level whenever the first job quest is: Examine - 20-30 sec cast time but doubles the chance of learning a BLU spell on their next learning attempt.
Next ability could be like, Enrage. Mob focuses his learnable spell on the BLU increasing chance to learn said spell/ability by 10%. Before and after it uses the ability, it stays on tank (hehehe have fun learning tank busters). If used on the BLU that already knows said BLU magic, enemy potency heavily reduced.
Be the Monster: Next BLU magic cast has increased potency.

I think SE can make some non-monster skills to act as rewards for job quests. All other spells/abilities come from mobs.

There are lots of creative ways of making BLU work within the rule set XIV uses.

[Melichoir]

Mask Carnival is solo content meaning you can't do it with others and besides that it's limited to 50 cap stuff which basically no one does outside of roulette that Blue is locked from and unsynced.

At the moment yes. But your point was You just wanted to play a class you identify with, with friends, in current content. BLU will be considered current content. Again, current =/= end game raid content. Similar they are, theyre not always the same. Youll get quite a bit of your wish. Not the entirety of it. And whether thats good or bad is still up in the air because tis not even out yet. You want to list yoru complaints and critique it, go for it. Just do it after youve played it. Everything about how terrible or unfun this will be is speculation and subjective opinion.

Even I dont know if it will be fun. Could be terrible and boring. Could be more trouble than worth. I dont know. Gonna wait till its in game to decide. Lot of us are pushing that point, because a lot of detractors are angry about it and resorting to this being guaranteed terrible without even playing it once. If it is, you can say your right and those of us who had a different opinion will agree with you most likely. But until we get our hands on it, its silly to push a lot of the complaints being levied currently.

Job quests would obviously teach non-monster skills (BLUs don't just use monster skills only y'know)
As an Example (Cause let's face it, SE prolly isn't gonna do this)
Level 1: Learn (Learns a BLU spell from targeted enemy. Each monster has a base % of teaching the BLU their spell/ability. This % improves the lower HP the monster has. 0% at 100% HP, like 25-30% at critical)
Level whenever the first job quest is: Examine - 20-30 sec cast time but doubles the chance of learning a BLU spell on their next learning attempt.
Next ability could be like, Enrage. Mob focuses his learnable spell on the BLU increasing chance to learn said spell/ability by 10%. Before and after it uses the ability, it stays on tank (hehehe have fun learning tank busters). If used on the BLU that already knows said BLU magic, enemy potency heavily reduced.
Be the Monster: Next BLU magic cast has increased potency.

I think SE can make some non-monster skills to act as rewards for job quests. All other spells/abilities come from mobs.

There are lots of creative ways of making BLU work within the rule set XIV uses.

There will be likely skills you learn through quests. But the focus of BLU is learning monster skills. Job skills that help you learn monster skills would be expected honestly. The contention point is that SE has said they cant put it into end game content because the class would be to game breaking, unless they gut the class. People are either arguing that they shouldve, or that keeping it as is was better cause its more true to people's desires.

I think my biggest problem with the logic of defenders of this implementation of Blue Mage is the assumption that....the rest of the game is terrible, FFXIV is going downhill, dungeons/raids/alliances/everything battle classes can do is horrible and dull, all the other jobs are stale and nobody likes them, and Blue Mage is the turning point in a game that is a massive chore.

I may have had my own criticisms over the years, but I still love the overall game and new trials and raids and things added, and find it fun to see what jobs they implement next. I try to play and level all classes because I find something fun and unique about every single one (ehh...maybe not SB Machinist...)

We're playing FFXIV, there's no reason to expect the basis of the game to suddenly do a massive 180 to accommodate people that hate the rest of it, and even still there's things like Eureka that address that. Why does Blue Mage have to be the sacrifice?

I've had a few days to think and I feel like I'm still pretty upset, but willing to see where I can try and influence the dev team to allow Blue Mage to have a normal aspect once conditions are met. That way both sides of the fence are satisfied. What I can't get over are people who think it's a zero sum battle between "raiders" and the rest of the playerbase.

Im one of those "defenders", and I never made the argument that the rest of the game is a massive chore and terrible. In fact, Ive not seen that argument at all, but thats just anecdotal. Rather if you use the logic of people who are threatening to unsub, or have, they would be closer in line. As in, the only thing they were looking forward to was this class, and because of it, theres no reason to play anymore.

Ive personally stated that at slow points (which do happen in all MMOs), this would be another thing to do. Which is fine. The core argument a lot of us "Defenders" are making from what Ive seen is that balancing BLU to do Raid content would not be feasible without gutting the class and homogenizing it, and that at the end of the day we should wait to play it before passing judgement on how terrible it is. It's not a common argument going around that the 'defenders' are saying "Nah game sucks, but this will keep me interested."

Frankly, even considering what I said earlier about unsub implications, I dont really see anyone making your argument explicitly.

[shao32]

EVERY job we have is tailored to fit this game. Traditionally, a major purpose of BLM was to exploit enemies' elemental weaknesses with a variety of elemental spells, for example - that is COMPLETELY gone. While a lot of Blue Magic spells include status, there are plenty that do not. Keep only Bad Breath, and make it as useful as BLM's Sleep or SMN's Tri-Bind or any other job's crowd control abilities.

And their other spells? Give them Frost Breath for a nice aoe when dealing with packs, and for single-target DPS, have different sorts of Blue Magic interact with each other in interesting ways, like Magic Hammer inflicts a short-duration magic vulnerability that can be exploited by Death Ray, or Head Butt renders the mob briefly vulnerable to Slashing damage in order to follow up with Death Scissors. And hey, the Frost Breath example above? Inflict Fire vulnerability for a Bomb Toss follow-up! That's just one example of how you can include a variety of status-free Blue Magic spells while still making for an engaging and interesting DPS job.

YoshiP, judging by his comments on BLU four years ago and what we wound up with today, is clearly stuck in a rut in his thinking of how the job must work. But he's wrong. Every job was changed and given its own identity in this game, and that identity does not precisely match how it has been in previous games. If Yoshi's vision for BLU was incompatible with the game, he needed to change his vision, not implement it as-is (and preserve balance by locking it out of practically everything).

the rest of the jobs in the game are not tied so heavily to a game mechanic like BLUE is, BLM use heavy powerfull spells and depending of the target one are more efective to other but the spells are just direct damage and nothing more that works better on certain enemies, DRK for another example is a heavy armored job that sacrifice a resource to dealt some big numbers and steal hp, we do the same in this game but with the MP bar.

BLU is a job where in the other games spend the entire game learning spells from monsters, thats his main niche and you can't have that here bcs when you reach max level you can't learn anything more and it will be extremly limited compared to other games, his spells work with elemental and status weaknes, is purely build around that and in this game don't exist that.
i don't say BLU can't be adapted, i never say that, but again you will sacrifice practicaly 90% of BLU identity for a mage that cast bad breath, white wind and go on, the whole thing of "we learn skills throught job quest" is not a option since you meaby din't notice SE is getting rid of skills learning by quest excep the last one on this expansion, SAM and RDM only learn 2 skill from quest and the new jobs depending of the level they start will learn 2 or 3 by quest too, and of course with every expansion will be weird if BLU "forgeth" certain spells to learn new ones, is not only BLU can't work properly, its how will BLU keep his identity with the same adaptation of the other jobs if every expansion is getting rid of some skills for new ones, if you keep it all it will just be a dam nightmare for the devs to make all of then relevant, everything is a problem with BLU in this game is just like that.