[Request] BLU concerns regarding toxicity - apply to rest of game

[BillyKaplan]

Valid in the eyes of people who really dont understand or consider what will actually happen if its implemented.

You are more than welcome to contribute to the debate by enlightening us.

[Sylvina]

You are more than welcome to contribute to the debate by enlightening us.

I disagree.

Player toxicity, as well as player stupidity, is ultimately a player-driven problem. They will find other ways to be stupid. Adding even more needless restrictions to the queuing system just locks us out of doing the things we want. If you're queuing with DF, you basically signed a contract saying "I will consent to play with whoever the hell the system puts me with, regardless of whether said person is an idiot." There are other solutions to this problem already. You can boot the player with the vote system, or ignore their presence entirely.
I've had plenty of bad parties. Sometimes my roulette takes 45 minutes instead of 10-15. But you work with what you get. Think of it as a challenge to yourself. How can we do this with a deadweight player? Don't just give up leave, then blame the player. Take the opportunity to learn to do things in other ways.

Excluding the rather doubtful claim she made which I've removed from the quote, your question has already been answered. You pug you deal with it. that's how its always worked. not to mention the vast numbers of players who will quit of all of your WONDERFUL suggestions happen.

Also if you know much about the game at all you know that locking level 30 duties behind jobs means nobody can GET a job, the level 30 class quest must be completed first.

[Beckett]

Amazing troll post OP, gold star.

It's definitely hilarious and snarky, but I wouldn't call it a troll post. These are all actually really good suggestions that could only help people.

[KDSilver]

I like how some long and still current problem we meet with players and the game suddenly is important when it matters to Blue Mage only.

Devs woke up lol.

[DuskTS]

Everyone takes their gear off to queue for easy runs of Tam Tara/Ifrit.

[BillyKaplan]

Everyone takes their gear off to queue for easy runs of Tam Tara/Ifrit.

About time that problem got looked into too, no? Mentor roulette forces you to be at max ilvl for all the duties inside it. Other roulettes should have a similar mechanism where, once all duties are assigned a minimum ilvl, this is how it'll be:
Based on your level, it identifies the highest duty you can access. You need to have at least that ilvl to be able to queue.
This applies to 50/60 roulette and, say, normal raids roulette too. Oh you're 50 and you can access all these dungeons? The highest ilvl dungeon you can access will determine what ilvl you need to have on.
They already identified this as a problem when they designed Mentor roulette, I don't see why they haven't applied it to the rest of it.

[NocturniaUzuki]

I disagree.

Player toxicity, as well as player stupidity, is ultimately a player-driven problem. They will find other ways to be stupid. Adding even more needless restrictions to the queuing system just locks us out of doing the things we want. If you're queuing with DF, you basically signed a contract saying "I will consent to play with whoever the hell the system puts me with, regardless of whether said person is an idiot." There are other solutions to this problem already. You can boot the player with the vote system, or ignore their presence entirely. Someone said something about a Lv. 47 GLA in AV? Not that big a deal. You don't NEED a tank (or even a healer) to clear AV if you know what you're doing. But then if you can't pull it off with just 1 healer and 2 DPS, that's what the 'find new member' system is for.

I've had plenty of bad parties. Sometimes my roulette takes 45 minutes instead of 10-15. But you work with what you get. Think of it as a challenge to yourself. How can we do this with a deadweight player? Don't just give up leave, then blame the player. Take the opportunity to learn to do things in other ways.

[BillyKaplan]

Player toxicity, as well as player stupidity, is ultimately a player-driven problem.

One the devs have acknowledged they take into consideration when designing new content. So they should be consistent in their approach.

They will find other ways to be stupid.

I already admitted this does nothing to take care of player skill - nothing short of SE endorsed bots will do that, and that won't happen.

Adding even more needless restrictions

"Needless"? Content is created and balanced with certain assumptions in mine. Shinryu is a good example, the devs expected people to have at least done their level 70 job quests so they had full 290 left side minus belt. That means a certain amount of vitality. That's what they based Shinryu's unavoidable damage attacks on. If an undergeared player dies to the stack marker when the entire party is stacked, they have no weakness, they have Protect and either an AST or SCH shield on them, then I find it hard to say it works as intended.
The only thing needless here is how much harder for everyone in the instance the fight now is because the healers need to take extra care of that player. Heaven forbids it's one of the healers themselves, or a tank.

the queuing system just locks us out of doing the things we want.

The queueing system already locks you out of doing things you want, until certain requirements are met. Those requirements already include a minimum ilvl for most roulettes - I simply request that this ilvl be modified based on what duties you can complete, which will be a given once all duties have their own min ilvl restriction.

If you're queuing with DF, you basically signed a contract saying "I will consent to play with whoever the hell the system puts me with, regardless of whether said person is an idiot."

The existence of the "leave duty" action says otherwise.

You can boot the player with the vote system

That is literally the scenario Yoshi-P described and said he wanted to avoid regarding BLU. So from the developers' standpoint, it is not acceptable. What I don't get is why they only care about it for BLU. It should apply anywhere, and that is what this thread is here to advocate.

Edit: I should clarify I am only really opposed to #1 and #4.

Content in the game is balanced around the assumption people have their soul crystals and subsequent job-locked skills. If you don't mind #2 and #3, you by definition also agree to #1, because they can't come without it.

I was also in a rush and didn't see the PF bypass. As long as it can be bypassed, go right ahead and restrict all you want

now if only we could do that to the MSQ cutscenes...

[JBee]

Someone said something about a Lv. 47 GLA in AV? Not that big a deal. You don't NEED a tank (or even a healer) to clear AV if you know what you're doing.

Here is the post you were most likely referencing, from earlier in this thread:

I support this.

I've seen a Gladiator lvl 47 in Aurum Vale without doing any of the Class quest... So no Shield Lob, Shield Oath and so forth. It was truly horrible. Manage to pass the 1st room but needed to kick him because he was not listening.

The last section of his post is pretty important - 'because he was not listening.' Often times, the people I have personally ran across who did not have their job crystal soon after reaching 30 were either uninformed (happens) or more often straight up did not care. They are the types of players where the other people running around are little more than mobile npcs to them - we're all supporting actors in the play that is their game. They don't care if they waste someone else's time, but there is hell to pay if someone wastes theirs. They don't care that running as a Marauder instead of a Paladin gives you significantly fewer tools and means to perform your role effectively; etc.

It's those people - the people who are so far down IDGAF Boulevard that grouping with them is going to be at BEST, something you slog through... Because of those people, yes minimum requirements would benefit the vast majority of players. Realistically, it wouldn't adversely affect a lot of people. Maybe someone who JUST hit 30 and wants to jump into an msq dungeon to continue the story might be a little irritated they would need to go do other stuff first. I know I'm guilty of doing a lot of the SB job quests once I hit 70, because I have gear waiting on the job for when it maxes. Some of the solo duties in the 60s were pretty rough if you were a little behind in gear.

But as someone who personally went through a portion of Qarn a few weeks ago with a 30 something Conjuror who didn't have their job stone and was unable to keep the tank alive...so they bailed and we had to sit and wait on a replacement midway through... That was a bad run for 3 people because it. Same went for when I went through B. Wall with a tank that was very poorly equipped. Super nice guy, was there only to help, but his lack of gear was too much for the healer to handle. So he stepped aside after saying repeatedly he had bad gear, and we had to wait for a replacement. Someone even put it in the Tales from Duty Finder a while back.

Just my thoughts and experiences.

[BillyKaplan]

I know I'm guilty of doing a lot of the SB job quests once I hit 70, because I have gear waiting on the job for when it maxes. Some of the solo duties in the 60s were pretty rough if you were a little behind in gear.

The thing is, in SB specifically you're not missing out on anything of any true importance if you do that. If you did that in HW, however, that would be a different story.
Naturally, all the suggestions are to be examined separately. If next xpac lets you theoretically ignore the job quests until the very last one, I don't mind if people don't bother with that because it's ultimately harmless. The question is, at what point do they hinder their performance by definition of missing something (skills, gear, etc)? That's where I want the devs to put a checkpoint.

Same went for when I went through B. Wall with a tank that was very poorly equipped.

That's interesting because B. Wall does actually have an ilvl restriction. Did they pull big despite their min ilvl gear? Though that brings us back to the sad point that there's nothing that can be done about player skill. We can only help them (well, and ourselves) so much through asking for in-game restriction like these.