SE, the concept of "Limited Jobs" is a really bad idea, turn back now

[Shougun]

So your answer to BLU being locked out of content is to.... lock BLU out of content?

Well, I can't say I disagree, but, uh...

There is a huge difference from being locked behind something forever and being locked behind a very attainable key. I feel that should be self evident though, if you don't assume all the people who want blue to work in duty finder are crazed lunatics lol.

I am not a fan of the first (forever locked), I am quite okay with the second (self attainable keys to gates) - in fact I think jobs that have weird locks on the second could be interesting. As said before, and just my imo (not representing a whole group of people), I would like to see advanced jobs - or in other words jobs that function up to the par of other jobs but come with unique twists. Limited job has a permanent seal on a set of content, that I'm not okay with. A soft lock due to unique complexities that bring a different style of play, okay that's fine. And just to clarify before someone says "but you can get the keys with the current version SE made", there is also a difference from SE will allow Blue Mage to content each patch but /never/ end game and duty finder vs a Blue Mage can earn the ability to do end game and duty finder. (In the first the key to end game and duty finder, in SE's current known version, is always forever locked away. Second and wanted version it's not).

Also, my personal statements, just because I've seen some people say "all 48+ spells as an option balanced for duty finder" is that they select a set of skills from the growing list of Blue Mage abilities that are balanced but do not attempt or care to balance all of them. The set that is balanced is the set the blue must use in duty finder. To be honest most people I've seen asking for Blue Mage to be duty finder able haven't asked for the entire set of skills, I've seen it a few times but the majority is like "I'll be okay with a smaller set".

Since I've seen a lot of blue lumping, just to be clear on my desires lol:

• I want to see the Blue Mage book as it is.
• I want to see the circus content as it is, although I dont mind other jobs joining in (it's not important to me that it is Blue Mage exclusive).
• I /also/ want to see Blue Mage allowed into duty finder content.
• I am okay with the duty finder adjustment of Blue Mage to be done at a later date (I mean I believe it would be impossible to expect it by 4.5, quite literally).
• I would prefer it to be done by 5.X, but sometime is better than no time so if it has to be later but can happen then so be it.
• I don't really care to see all possible Blue Mage book spells balanced for duty finder, I prefer they make a tighter design that has gameplay elements that are both fun and easier to balance (which is why I suggest they highlight a subset in the book for duty finder).
• I am okay with restrictions to Blue Mage that means "you must learn the highlighted spell that you could use in duty finder before you can queue for that level of content".
• To be honest I think that should be true for all jobs lol. You shouldn't be joining duty finder when you're missing a bunch of core spells from your job XD. Some of those spells are actually not that important but a few are.

The tl;dr I'm willing to wait for SE to make Blue Mage duty finder possible, I want to see their current design out, I want to see more weird designs, I want to see both, and I believe they can do both. I also don't want to see /all/ future jobs be weird, I'm just excited for the idea of "advanced job" and not a fan at all of "limited job". (Advanced being weird in some core aspect, like learning skills, crafting your tool set (puppetmaster), taming and training (beastmaster) and so forth - but that'll also function in regular content).

[Skos]

I don't dislike the concept of Blue Mage in general in this game. I think it's cool that we're getting a class that has a different progression model when it comes to leveling. I don't mind being incentivized to go out into the overworld to grind/chain mobs for EXP and Blue Magic acquisition.

I don't dislike overworld content, if it's done in a fun and meaningful way. I personally don't think "hey we're gonna bar you from getting EXP in dungeons/you're gonna get less EXP in dungeons, go grind the overworld instead" is good overworld content though. As it is right now the overworld is very bland and I don't think Blue Mage is going to make it any more interesting. (I hope to be proven wrong though)

I don't dislike the idea of solo content in FF14 (and MMOs in general). I absolutely LOVE the idea of the Blue Carnival, and I honestly wish it wasn't limited to just Blue Mage and I would love to see this solo content idea expanded on in the future.


That said though, I absolutely hate the idea of limited jobs. It basically tells me that Square has given up on creating their own original incarnation of Blue Mage, one that would fit in the mold of FF14, and just decides to throw us a half-finished prototype.



Blue Mage in 14? Awesome, my favorite FF job in general!
Alternatively leveling method that's not just roulettes and dungeons over and over? Sign me up! The fact that we're incentivized to spend most time in the overworld is a little disappointing considering how weak FF14's overworld actually is compared to most other MMOs, but who knows. Maybe the novelty of finding Blue Magic out in the world will hold the entire thing together.
More content actually designed to be done solo? Hell yeah! I would love to see them expand on this in the future.
Jobs that are limited in the amount of content they can do for no reason other than "balance"? This concept can go die in a fire.

[Blokeymon]

The problem that SE has is that, no matter what they do, they will upset SOMEONE.

Millions of customers. Some long-time fans. Some newcomers. Some from other series. You think they can please EVERYONE?

They need to make the class that fits FFXIV, not that fits a small percentage of the playerbase.

Damned if they do...

[jon041065]

The problem that SE has is that, no matter what they do, they will upset SOMEONE.

Millions of customers. Some long-time fans. Some newcomers. Some from other series. You think they can please EVERYONE?

They need to make the class that fits FFXIV, not that fits a small percentage of the playerbase.

Damned if they do...

Yep someone will be upset no matter what they do.

Millions? I don't think this game has more than 1mil subs. Meaning big risks that backfire can really hurt the game. The game can keep going on with a fraction of the subs but pretty sure XIV is still what is keeping SE running at this time.

A lot of us agree with you so then why does it seem you have been defending the limited job concept which targets a small percentage of players. That doesn't mean the content won't appeal to many but I don't believe a majority of the player base has been asking for jobs focused on solo play.

Damned if they do...have jobs designed for one type of player. Jobs should be for everyone then have different types of content that we as players can take our favorite job into. Sure the "omg limited jobs are the best idea thank you Yoshi!" crowd will be upset but the people that want more solo content would be happy, the people that want more open world content would be happy, and the people that have waited years (and would probably have to wait two more) would be happy to finally be able to main blue mage.

[Auryan]

Yep someone will be upset no matter what they do.

Millions? I don't think this game has more than 1mil subs. Meaning big risks that backfire can really hurt the game. The game can keep going on with a fraction of the subs but pretty sure XIV is still what is keeping SE running at this time.

A quick google search will show that XIV has over 10 million subscribers. You are also wrong that SE needs XIV to survive. Contrary to popular beliefs, SE is doing just fine, at least financially. It's a lot more debatable when it comes to image. Anyway...XIV is a cash cow for them, but they can live without XIV.

As for catering to what audience: I'd leave that to SE over any random commentator. Especially since, you know, they actually have the numbers and data of the player base and have more knowledge on what people want.

I feel bad for the people who fantasize of maining BLU, but they really had almost no chance of getting to that. Agree with their reasoning or not, they weren't going to add it as a typical battle job. I get the feeling that a lot of people would be happier with Yoshi-P vaguely mentioning that they're thinking about BLU at the end of every expansion as oppose to this version. Oh well...what can you do? I'm just waiting to see how this all works out.

[Nabril]

Solo focused, not solo only. It still needs groups to get some of its stuff. You're getting things wrong right off the bat, and you repeatedly get that point wrong.
You also argue that because it's not what raiders would want it's a waste of resources that should've gone into making them happy. Not everything in an MMO is raiding, so no not all content needs to be for them.
The only "dangerous precedent" would be caving to this kind of tantrum.

I'm with this guy. This class adds another group activity that isn't just raiding and I applaud it. Active guilds will have the advantage as it should be!

[Nabril]

And it can only group in pre-mades, thereby forcing people to rely on randoms in PF or hoping their friends are both online and able to help. Regardless, this will likely be treated akin to Wondrous Tales where you unsync everything—a scenario where BLU is utterly worthless since a level 80 WAR can pull every single mob and go AFK. No matter how you spin this, the emphasise is on solo, which isn't going to work well in a MMO setting.

My guild will be forming many parties for this and we're all eagerly awaiting the enjoyment we'll get out of it. If your guild doesn't want to do this, then maybe it's time for a new one.

[Nabril]

Does it justify spending what is likely a lot of time and resources on a job relegated to little more than a tag-a-log when "real" jobs do all the work? Think about it. You wouldn't be playing Blue Mage in a dungeon because that level 80 Warrior would be doing all the work. You're 100% useless.



Unfortunately, the Trust system is currently regulated to Shadowbringer content only. Regardless, this still makes Blue Mage a solo only job. So... I'd rather they put their resources to content that actually matters. Perhaps I'll be proven wrong, but I fully expect Blue Mage to be Hildebrand-esque, where they update it every seven months with a couple quests and one or two new abilities. That just doesn't scream excitement to me.



I can currently solo every ARR Primal on any job. By level 80, this will be even easier. Therefore, Blue Mage isn't contributing to jack shit. They're standing there doing nothing. Go into Titan EX with a friend right now except you're a level 50 Dragoon and they're a level 70 Warrior. Now pretend you're a Blue Mage because it'll be about the same experience.

So if you can solo everything, then why would you be upset that the blue mage would be standing there? You don't need his contribution. Do you really despise your FC members so much that you wouldn't help any of them out?

[Blokeymon]

A lot of us agree with you so then why does it seem you have been defending the limited job concept which targets a small percentage of players.

Because I am.

I actually want BLU as it has been presented.

I want it to be solo content.

I want something different from the "here's a standard cookie cutter job, nerfed to high hell so it will fit with the balance of the rest of the jobs" that we've had.

I actually want this limited job.

That's why it looks like I'm defending it.

Because I am.

But I also know that no matter WHAT they do, they will never get 100% satisfaction from the playerbase.

Christ, if even they gave us BOTH versions, people would still cry "It should be either/or, not both" because that's just how people are.

[Mr_Gyactus]

The last page idea is "if BLU doesn't have enough abilities he cannot join a certain content".
Oooook.

And what if :
"BLU has enough abilities but he does not use them"
or "BLU has enough abilities and use them but his equip is garbage"
or "BLU has enough abilities and use them and his equip is ok but without materia"
or "BLU has enough abilities and use them and his equip is ok and with the best materia but he is a Viera and we have a miqo'te in party"

It works with every job already ingame, try it!