Idea: Why not make a solo version of every class?

[Hyren575]

Before you immediately shoot down this idea give me a moment to explain myself. I've been struggling with maintaining investment and interest in the game for a long time and I've brainstormed ideas with friends and such about my own hypothetical ways to fix that. I've had a lot of ideas, some of which I'll briefly touch on here, but a common problem is simply one of "This idea will make some people happy but upset others." Pleasing large numbers of people in a game like this is a difficult balancing act, especially when you start talking about reworking chunks of the game. You're inevitably going to upset people. Blue mage gave me an epiphany that made me realize the solution might not be as difficult or impossible as I previously thought.

I've been playing since shortly after 2.0, and even as far back as midway through Heavensward I was starting to feel burned out. Stormblood got me back into things but ultimately I ended up giving up again once the treadmill of content started up again. For me the endless grind of getting new gear in order to do new content to get new gear had gotten very old and I found myself distancing myself from the game. This is a sentiment I've heard echoed from a lot of people I know who are themselves leaving the game.

I've put forward ideas in private. Ways to reingage players in the long term. Most of them are focused around reworking the gear and ability system. Bringing back things like meaningful builds and subclassing, skill trees, passive abilities, and gear that doesn't become obsolete. Maybe is has things like unique effects attached to them rather than larger numbers so that you could use them based on your build. Cutting back on skill bloat by limiting how many skills you can have active, giving you free respec options so you can try a variety of builds, etc.

Granted, this is a very basic idea. It's much easier to say ideas than to actually make them functional. I recognize why the system is at it is, too. It's much, much simpler to balance things when there is less variety to it. It's also much more accessible to a new player when your options are more limited. And, heck, some people don't WANT to have a lot of choice for any number of reasons. That's ok too. There is nothing wrong with that. Even that is ignoring that the game is a little too established at this point to go through a major rework of its systems. Previously I had suggested a sort of prestiege mode. Instead of increasing a level cap you might get a new tier of levels with a reworked system in place. That way new content going forward could use that but if you went back to old content you'd use the old system. On top of that I thought maybe to preserve accessibility there would be limits in the way a new skill system or job subclass system worked. All of this had issues however, and all of it bumped into the problem of not being able to make everyone happy.

[Hyren575]

But now we have Blue Mage. This is a class that has been stated directly to be largly focused on solo play. To top it off it uses a way of getting, using, and acquiring skills that is radically different from anything else in the game. That's when it hit me. Blue Mage can be so unique and different because it doesn't have to be balanced against other content. It only has to be balanced against ITSELF. If it wants to have unique solo gear, crazy new skills, an elemental weakness system, or whatever else there is no problem in doing so because instead of having to focus on how this class works in a group you are instead only required to be concerned if it works in it's own solo sphere of influence.

Think about it. We already have seperate PVP actions for classes. Why not implement a "Solo mode" for each class. I'm not suggesting a one size fits all solution. Why not give each class a unique method of acquiring or using skills. New and interesting mechanics based around solo play. Heck, bring in skill trees, passive abilities, or SUBCLASSING. Give them unique gear that has game changing effects. Go nuts! The only caveat is you're playing in solo mode. You're not effecting the balance of the entire game, you're only concerned about how Red Mage or Warrior in solo mode works against itself. Pick your favorite class, do the content you want, feel like you're making meaningful choices in your character planning. All without removing the current aspects of the game other people enjoy.

By splitting these two things up you no longer are required to shackle one aspect of gameplay to the other. People who want unique classes and meaingful builds can do so. People who want to chase the next level of gear with other people can do so. Someone who wants to play solo will be able to while someone who wants to be in a group can do the same. All without fundamentally removing or changing any built in mechanics.

Realistically I don't actually expect much. I'm excited about this idea but I don't imagine it will ever be a reality. Still, I'm sharing it here. Blue Mage opened the doors to this concept. I started thinking "Blue Mage is interesting, but what if I want to have a good solo experience with... red mage?" What if someone isn't interested in blue mage? What if someone wants to use their favorite class solo in a unique way? It's a nice idea, if nothing else. It wouldn't even have to be all at once. Every major patch could add one or two new classes to the solo mode pool until eventually you have the whole stable available. Let people play the whole game solo this way if they want.

All that would really matter is making each one unique, give them meaningful character options, and try to give any solo mode the same feeling of building your character as you'd get from, well... a Final Fantasy game.

Edit: I just wanted to add that I'm not suggesting any "Solo Mode" be a seperate character or instance from the game at large. I mean it more in the way that PVP and standard gameplay actions are combined on one character but tracked and used seperately depending on whether you are in a PVP zone or not. Perhaps you would equip a class stone or gear listed as solo only, activating solo mode which has its stats tracked seperately from the base class. You'd still be in the same game world as everyone else but would simply be using a seperate solo set of actions and mechanics while you are using such solo specific gear. However you do it the point is that you would not be isolated from the MMO world at large you would simply be using a different set of actions and restricted to solo mode content until you choose to switch back.

[WellFooled]

One of my main complaints against FFXIV has long been how we don't have customization gameplay. All paladins play the same, all bards play the same, all red mages play the same. We're all cookie cutters of each other. Is it balanced? Absolutely. FFXIV is a fine example of balance. Is it mind numbingly boring? Also absolutely.

If they added what you suggested, solo content would be insanely more fun than group content. Skill trees, subclassing, unique ways to aquire a slew of abilities and customize your character based on what abilities you use (like Blue Mage) are all a dream come true.

I would suggest screw limiting that to solo content. Give me that game, the one I'm playing now is boring.

[Hyren575]

On a personal level I completely agree with you. However what one person finds boring another person finds fun. What one person finds easy to understand another person finds frusterating. From a marketing perspective it makes sense why you'd want to have the game very accessible even if it meant making everything extremely samey for balance purposes. On top of that when you have to create content like dungeons it becomes exponentially harder to balance for every player option available. As awesome as it is to fantasize about the possibility the reality is all this stuff takes money and time to do. Unfortunately neither is as infinite of a resource as we would like it to be for a developer.

That's why I think splitting it into seperate modes is a good idea. You can give them the same base content with some exceptions on either side. Solo side could get some unique duties and normal side can get things like raids. It would give people who want these extra options a place for them yet wouldn't destroy the balance of the game for those who like it as it is. That way you make as many people as happy as possible and, let's be honest, from a financial perspective that's what you want to do. Reworking huge chunks of the game is a good way to upset half the playerbase into dropping immediately especially when the game has been established as the way it is for many years now.

One thing that could be done, though, is allow "Solo Mode" builds into duties together unsynced. Basically a "Let's just all be OP" type of thing. It is still an MMO after all, and showing off builds can be a lot of fun. The entire point of solo is to not be concerned about balance in order to bring in unique ideas and player diversity. Unsynced has always been a way to simply curbstomp everything without care for balance. It's a natural fit.

[WellFooled]

As awesome as it is to fantasize about the possibility the reality is all this stuff takes money and time to do. Unfortunately neither is as infinite resource as we would like it to be for a developer.

That's why I think splitting it into seperate modes is a good idea.

I see what you're saying, but you can't make the argument that balancing a more complex game would cost too many resources while simultaneously suggesting doubling the workload of the job and content design from now on. To do what you're suggesting would take a very large amount of time and work. I suggest if the devs would do that work, make it for the entire game and not limit the benefits of that work to soloing content, particularly not in an MMORPG.

The argument that a more complex system would confuse players is not one I consider valid. No other MMO on the market has such a lack of customization as FFXIV and yet the playerbases on those games can understand the mechanics (and FFXIV has its fair share of complicated mechanics, just not ones that include gameplay customization. Chocobo breeding is complicated for example and takes some research to understand), tutorials can be introduced to explain any new concepts as per usual, and naturally online guides will be abundant for those who don't enjoy creating their own builds.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

One of my main complaints against FFXIV has long been how we don't have customization gameplay. All paladins play the same, all bards play the same, all red mages play the same. We're all cookie cutters of each other. Is it balanced? Absolutely. FFXIV is a fine example of balance. Is it mind numbingly boring? Also absolutely.

If they added what you suggested, solo content would be insanely more fun than group content. Skill trees, subclassing, unique ways to aquire a slew of abilities and customize your character based on what abilities you use (like Blue Mage) are all a dream come true.

I would suggest screw limiting that to solo content. Give me that game, the one I'm playing now is boring.

The issue becomes without balance, people will force out certain jobs worse than they already do. This happened in FFXI and happens in WoW frequently. If you play a gimped job, it's basically considered worthless. Adding to these problems is people are going to determine the mathematically superior build and outside slight deviations from it, you will be expected to use said build in harder content. Customization is ultimately an illusion.

[Hyren575]

The issue becomes without balance, people will force out certain jobs worse than they already do. This happened in FFXI and happens in WoW frequently. If you play a gimped job, it's basically considered worthless. Adding to these problems is people are going to determine the mathematically superior build and outside slight deviations from it, you will be expected to use said build in harder content. Customization is ultimately an illusion.

While I personally don't know if I'd agree with all of this specifically (Or, at least, not to the same degree) this is more reason why seperating the content into different tiers would be more workable. One focused on unique and engaging content. One focused on balance and team play.

[diruulth]

because it’s an mmorpg.

[Dzian]

The issue becomes without balance, people will force out certain jobs worse than they already do. This happened in FFXI and happens in WoW frequently. If you play a gimped job, it's basically considered worthless. Adding to these problems is people are going to determine the mathematically superior build and outside slight deviations from it, you will be expected to use said build in harder content. Customization is ultimately an illusion.

that depends. In FFXI for example the issue with a lot of jobs was not the jobs themselves but the enviroment. many of those jobs that were lolled at not because they were considered weak but because of the way in which the enviroment worked. pet jobs for example were generally pretty damn strong but the reason they were often lolled is becasue they fed bosses and mobs so much tp they made fights harder than they needed to be.. this is why even dragoons were lolled. a lot of mobs were weak to piercing damage which would have been ideal for a dragoon but there pets fed so much tp to bosses that they were often shunned.

just changing the way mobs were fed tp within the enviroment would have practically eliminated the lolling of the all of those jobs. without any actual adjustments to the jobs themselves... and thus many of the jobs would have been better balanced just by making that one enviromental change..

if you adjusted the mob variety at the higher levels (pre abyssea) then you would have gone a long way to making casters more desirable. they were generally only shunned at higher levels because virtually every mob at those levels would either silence you, give you amnesia or reflect any magic attacks back at your party.. all of which destroyed casters in higher end parties. again could have been fixed with an enviromental adjustment...

A good enviroment creates balance on its own.. the best and easiest example of this wouldbefirst person shooters. where you might have a guy with close quarters shotguns / smgs. and a guy with a high powered sniper rifle... both of these people have distinctly different strengths and weaknesses and thus it is the enviroment that creates the balance.. a wide open desert for example that sniper is gonna be so over powered the guy with a shotgun wouldnt even stand a chance... however an enviroment such as an office block or something the sniper is going to be at a distinct disadvantage over the other guy... so if you create an enviromnet that encorporates both. you achieve balance.

racing games are another example. you can have super fasst cars that dont handle so great and slower cars with much better handling and traction... in a drag race it's obvious the super fast car will win. on windy backroads though its likely to lose.. so balance is achieved through the enviroment and intelligent track design...

IF XIV hadnt simplified its enviroment so much it could have made jobs incredibly diverse and use the enviroment to achieve balance.. but it's been dumbed down and simplified so much that DPS is literally the only thing that ever matters

[Krojack]

One of my main complaints against FFXIV has long been how we don't have customization gameplay. All paladins play the same, all bards play the same, all red mages play the same. We're all cookie cutters of each other. Is it balanced? Absolutely. FFXIV is a fine example of balance. Is it mind numbingly boring? Also absolutely.

Wow had talent trees for years yet everyone still all choose the same talents because those were the best ones. The same would happen here. Everyone would still be cookie cutter of everyone else