BLU for Duty Finder and Raids! Show your support!

[Alleo]

They also said how much fun the devs had with Eureka, that they have listened to us after Diadem 1.0 (which we saw in Diadem 2.0 that they truly did not or to someone else). Also they have told us things in interviews before and changed their mind later too..so maybe they should only talk about things in interview that they will also stick with and not change later, this way people might be able to 100% trust what is said there.

Also just because it was not able to be implemented in the normal way does not mean that this was the only outcome. The devs sadly have more than once shown that they are a bit blind to other ideas (glamour book, housing) so maybe they have told themselves that no other way was possible, even though a lot of people do play jobs like redmage even if they are not 100% like other FF ones.

About your quotes: "everyone doesnt read interviews" does not mean "they dont listen", it simply means that most probably wont follow all the interviews (especially since quite a few are jp only..and only have fantranslations) thus they might be surprised about this blue mage. Honestly probably the major amount of players does not read and post in the forum, does not go to fanfests, does not post on social media about their opinion or follow the interviews. And that is probably why he said that not everyone reads interviews, so even if he has stated his opinion on it (and again his opinion can change quite fast...)not everyone will have read them..thus the surprise. But of course you can also read it at "omg the community dont listen"

"Over 70% were positive" Sometimes I really would want to see their numbers, how they get them and how the interpret them. I mean its the same team that says that something is fun for the community just because x amount is doing it while ignoring that maybe other just do it for the rewards and dislike the content. Again we are of couse only the minority because most people will probably not even post about this game somewhere but that also means that until its implemented they also cant say for sure if we are just the loud mop or if maybe other also dislike it. In the end the forums and reddit were always a good little hint about content. And if you have a split everywhere (even if its not that hard of a split like Eureka was..) then I doubt that the majority really is all that positive. But of course it can also happen..but you would still have 30% of them negative. (And again only of those that post)

About the last point: And nobody said that stuff like the carnival shouldnt be in the game at all. They could have still given people this as their solo content which they might even use to introduce more of such content in the future for other jobs.

[BillyKaplan]

"We shouldn't stay in our cage and be bound by the word MMORPG. Instead, we should treat it like an Online game that has all sorts of content"

I can't wait until they properly implement the Trust's AI system and finally let themselves end this MMO charade. FFXIV offline with randomized MB, Please Look Forward To It.

[Fyce]

-snip-

1. If you (general "you") say that you waited 5 years to main BLU (even if you didn't actually know how it would play in FFXIV), it means that: a) you participate on social media, forums, reddit, whatever, b) you really care and are passionate about the subject.
So, if now you come saying that you didn't actually inform yourself about what's being said about your "favourite job" in 5 years, then I absolutly cannot pity you. That's what I meant when I said that people don't "listen". You have people who are actively participating in the vocal part of the community acting surprised even when there was absolutly no reason for them to be. I'm not talking about those who don't participate or check anything. I'm talking about those who do, but somehow "missed" the information about something they really care about and were "waiting 5 years for it".
In short, if you claim to be caring a lot about something, the least you can do is inform yourself about it.

2. Would you question this "70% positive" number if it was "70% negative"? I know quite a bunch of people who wouldn't. Whatever the case, the "BLU debate" was pretty divisive. And while the "negative" side received more support from vocal people (as the vocal side always does), it clearly wasn't enought to push the balance. There has been a lot of other debates in the history of FFXIV that have been way more heated than that. So, if you want to say that the forums and reddit are a good indicator, well, what I'm taking from it is that most people simply don't care. Most BLU threads are already dead, and reddit didn't see a new popular thread about limited jobs or BLU in quite some time now. I do think it's quite plausible to think that most people are in a "as long as it's fun, it's fine" mindset.

3. If you think that nobody did bring the "this is an MMORPG, I don't want solo content!" argument, then I have to question your reading skills. I've argued against countless people using that already. This very thread has a bunch of good examples.

-----

Edit: for Shougun just below... As it's pretty much on the same topic and format.

I think it's fair for him to remind people that they do communicate on this kind of stuff. And that's not the first time he basically said "guys, I told you, but you kept asking for it so...". So, as I said, if someone cares enough, they should make the effort to inform themselves and raise their voice before it's too late. I mean, wouldn't you be a bit angry if you warn people about something for years, and then they act surprised when that thing finally happens and they are like "omg I didn't know!"? Putting aside people who dismiss what he said for... reasons (?).

Regarding the 70% thing, they didn't disclose what kind of audit they did. And I highly doubt that Yoshida himself knows the details. That'd be a question to ask to the community team, as they were the ones tasked with doing that. And if you actually do think that people's voice and feedback were being badly or wrongly reported, feel free to ask them. Probably in a dedicated thread or when they do their Q&A stuff.

As for the disappointment thing, well, it's indeed pretty subjective. And if it wasn't BLU, it would be something else, or impact other people. Anyway, it's now clear that they really didn't intent to implement BLU in FFXIV because of its quirks. No matter if people see that decision as valid or not. It's also hard not to say that BLU wasn't a good candidate for that kind of treatment. And if Limited Jobs are a way to see jobs that otherwise would never come to FFXIV, well, better accepting it and try to get the most out of that instead of staying bitter.

[Shougun]

Game watch: I was there when you announced BLU at NA fanfest, but after everyone was hyped, i started to hear confusion in their voices.
Yoshida: I always had a safety net when i talked about BLU and everytime someone asked about BLU, i said "Well, we can't implement it in the normal fashion. BLU is about learning", but of course, everyone doesn't read interviews.

"I've said it for fours years now, but you don't listen."
Perfect.

Yoshida: I got the community teams around the world to investigate players' reactions to BLU and over 70% of them were positive. Louder voices tend to stand out, but when you check all sorts of social media, the investigations have shown that most people are looking foward to it.

This one is for the "massive outcry" and "a majority dislike it" crowd.

Yoshida:[...] after Stormblood was released, the number of players didn't stagger/drop, and instead increased. This was when we started thinking "We shouldn't stay in our cage and be bound by the word MMORPG. Instead, we should treat it like an Online game that has all sorts of content". By positively and flexibly creating content to make it more "fun", all types of people with different interests can enjoy it. Rather than never implementing it because of stubborn reasons, we decided to base our challenge around "how fun the game play" is.

If you ever thought "this is an MMORPG! Solo content is bad!" or "all jobs should be fitting the mold!", this one was for you.

---

I strongly advise anyone to read the Q&A interview. It's filled with stuff like that.

1.
I hope he doesn't see that as a get out of jail card, because it's not a good one. I mean if we're playing "I've been saying this for years" then the first time he introduced a job as solo content (many years ago he mentioned blue is hard and may be this way) I immediately responded to those threads with "yeah, how about no" (more words, less blunt but basically that). I also from that point said that I didn't want them to destroy their solo content ideas but I'm not interested in seeing Blue Mage have that restriction. That they can make the content, just don't make it the only part of Blue or allow others into it and still allow Blue into content as a regular job.

If it's a safety net it's a net made out of wet paper. Imo, lol.

2.
I wonder for his investigation if it's the like / dislike ratio on the youtube video reveal of Blue Mage. . . Because the response on the forums is clearly not 70% in favor. Although you'd expect to always see a negative bias on the forums since you come to ask for stuff, if you want to praise then it's just more like silently handing your money off lol.

3.
I don't mind them trying new things but it's disappointing to see them do it to job aspects one may hope to play. Imagine if he did that to Samurai or if he allowed you to role play Viera but only in one zone. On these more popular concepts the forums would be on fire. People who didn't want to play (/main) Blue Mage of course are fine, and Blue Mage isn't as popular as some of the other jobs, but it's still disappointing.\

Edit: I guess we can be edit buddies lol:

Edit: for Shougun just below... As it's pretty much on the same topic and format.

I think it's fair for him to remind people that they do communicate on this kind of stuff. And that's not the first time he basically said "guys, I told you, but you kept asking for it so...". So, as I said, if someone cares enough, they should make the effort to inform themselves and raise their voice before it's too late. I mean, wouldn't you be a bit angry if you warn people about something for years, and then they act surprised when that thing finally happens and they are like "omg I didn't know!"? Putting aside people who dismiss what he said for... reasons (?).

Regarding the 70% thing, they didn't disclose what kind of audit they did. And I highly doubt that Yoshida himself knows the details. That'd be a question to ask to the community team, as they were the ones tasked with doing that. And if you actually do think that people's voice and feedback were being badly or wrongly reported, feel free to ask them. Probably in a dedicated thread or when they do their Q&A stuff.

As for the disappointment thing, well, it's indeed pretty subjective. And if it wasn't BLU, it would be something else, or impact other people. Anyway, it's now clear that they really didn't intent to implement BLU in FFXIV because of its quirks. No matter if people see that decision as valid or not. It's also hard not to say that BLU wasn't a good candidate for that kind of treatment. And if Limited Jobs are a way to see jobs that otherwise would never come to FFXIV, well, better accepting it and try to get the most out of that instead of staying bitter.

1. I get part of what you're saying but hopefully you get what I meant as well. Since I used the silly food analogy before let me get that one back out lol. If I ask for you to make me a sandwich, you being the chef (Yoshi), and the sandwich being Blue. You respond "yeah sure, but it'll have anchovies and pineapple in it". I respond back with "I still want a sandwich but I don't want that one!!!".

Of course you're free to ignore my request and I'm free to say it sucks lol. In this case I haven't tried the solo part and haven't decided if I'll like it or not yet (am waiting), but I /know/ I wanted the duty finder part and so it's a requested but missing ingredient. So what I was saying about his safety net is for those who have listened / heard what he has said so far that he feels he's already covered his bases by telling everyone it's going to have pineapple and I was saying "if that counts as a safety net" then I've already said "your sandwich ingredients are bad" (or in other words "no that's not what I ordered, go back"). And just again I know he doesn't have to design to exactly what I want, or anyone here, but in a place designed for feedback (feedback for the kitchen) - I'm doing just that.

So yea - I know he's pre warned us, but I find his reason for it having to be the solo / side content is not satisfactory. In that I strongly believe it could learn spells and still function 100% balanced in duty finder - with the restrictions I'm sure you've seen me say before. Of course i'm sure you also seen me say that I believe balancing a customized toolkit of over 50+ (100+ they designed so far) is EXTREMELY daunting and just exceptionally unlikely, and probably never balance-able (but I've never asked for that).

2. Absolutely, he's at the top of a shifting mountain and knowing even half of all the exact details of what's down underneath is pretty good. I still doubt that it's that high, assuming every single person polled knew what Blue Mage restrictions were (never to be in current content). I wouldn't be too shocked if it was still 40%+ like the idea, but I'd also suggest that unfortunately Blue Mage is not as popular so it's easy for people to let that job slide into something "other". People for example would be far more likely to flip tables for the jobs more people like (say Samurai or Dragoon). Dark Knight is going to be limited job only! Reason being they think blood magic can't be balanced. Forums on fire lol.

3. Yeah for sure, like Eureka or what have you where some love that old style and others just want to 1.0 Dalamud that section. I mean would you be sad if they at some time later made it have all those limited features and function (fairly, and balanced) in duty finder content? I'm not against weird things but I'm not a fan of limited, as you've probably read I'm for "advanced job" (some call it unlimited but it's not my favorite name).

[Elerus]

2. Would you question this "70% positive" number if it was "70% negative"?

How disappointing. Let's take the exact quote:

"I got the community teams around the world to investigate players' reactions to BLU and over 70% of them were positive."

Now how can this be? Easy. You simply phrase the "investigation" to the players as such: "We are adding a new job for free in our upcoming patch! Blue Mage is slated to arrive in 4.5 and we want to know if you would be interested in more new job content like this?"

Of course the majority are going to answer "yes" to this. It's not Square lying, it's just phrasing the narrative in a way that's favorable to them. Frankly I'm shocked they only managed to get 70%.

Oh? What's that? "B-but Square-san wouldn't do that to me! They'd give a full, unbiased, non-slanted inquiry!"

OK. Let's take a look at the official site which lists the content for the upcoming patch updated just today. Here I'll even link it for you: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/patch/4_5/

Show me where it says Blue Mage is limited. Show me where it lists the downsides and costs of this new job's implementation. I'll answer for you: it doesn't. In fact the page proudly trumpets NEW JOB. Square is framing this in the way that is most favorable to them and honestly - why wouldn't they? They're a company and it's in their best interest to spin their PR to the positive in all circumstances. But to fall for this blatant marketing ploy is really naive. Please try harder in the future.

[BillyKaplan]

Frankly I'm shocked they only managed to get 70%.

Those 30% include those who either watched the fanfest or heard the news

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Those 30% include those who either watched the fanfest or heard the news

You mean people who can't manage their expectations?

[Valdegarde]

Haha, holy crap, 70%. No way.

[Arkdra]

Haha, holy crap, 70%. No way.

Get this: most people don't marry themselves to a job concept before it even comes out. Every person who already has a 70 they are happy doing endgame content with isn't going to be put out about Blu being limited unless they already had a vested interest in being a blue mage. Which most people don't, just like the majority of people don't have any interest in any other singular job either.

[Burningskull]

I think it's probably more... 20% hate the idea of limited jobs, 20% are for it, and the rest don't really care....