Thread: Let Me Level up in 5.0

Originally Posted by Lastelli

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That's really not the same at all, still don't think you understand. If i want to start a job from lvl 1 and gain all the experience up to lvl 80, that's what I want to do (or OP). Being level 50/60 and syncing down to a low level is not the same at all because you are not getting the gaining the same amount of experience as half of it has already been handed to you.

Fact: most people don't like this game's levelling experience.

Opinions are not facts. Some players like the leveling experience or want to get the most of it, that's all.

Originally Posted by Kurando

That's really not the same at all, still don't think you understand. If i want to start a job from lvl 1 and gain all the experience up to lvl 80, that's what I want to do (or OP). Being level 50/60 and syncing down to a low level is not the same at all because you are not getting the gaining the same amount of experience as half of it has already been handed to you.



Opinions are not facts. Some players like the leveling experience or want to get the most of it, that's all.

I guess you believe that seeing the exp bar fill has come kind of intrinsic utility and provide satisfaction in itself. I personally think that's not the case, and I don't see how any rational person could think that.

Originally Posted by Kurando

Opinions are not facts.

Saying what the prevalent opinion is is not an opinion. You can make a survey asking people to state whether they like levelling in this game or not. If 80% of the participants answer that they do not like it, saying that most players don't like levelling is a fact, not an opinion. And since for many years now I've seen players complaining about the levelling experience in the game both on these forums and on reddit (and I saw virtually noone praising it), I'm pretty sure that players generally dislike levelling in ffxiv is a fact.

Originally Posted by Lastelli

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What people like and dislike about this game is not for you to disregard them by saying they are "not rational" or by forcing opinion on to others. People tend to complain more about things that compliment then, but hey if you want to follow every single thing you read online then that's up to you.

OP wanted an option to pick their starting level, that's all. Doesn't effect anyone negatively if they don't want to use it. I'm not really going to talk to a wall anymore so let's agree to disagree and move on.

I remember when myself and the ex hit HW. He picked up DRK immediately after with the full intent of power-leveling it and then proceeding with the story. Similarly, I picked up AST, even though I only partially mained it. Rest assured we probably would've passed if we had to start at 1. It was grueling enough as it was.

Hi, long time reader, first time poster on these forums.
Just to add my two pence, I don't think all you people saying to just run low level content to get the 'levelling' experience really understand, so I'll try to explain my perspective. I've levelled a few classes myself, and I vastly prefer starting at level 1.
I prefer it not because of the grind to max level, or because I particularly enjoy running lots of low level content.
I prefer it because there's no mess. You have your first skill, and as you level you get the rest one by one. As a result, you learn how and when to use each skill individually, you notice what works well together, and you choose where you want that skill on your hotbars.
Picking up red mage at 50 was hard, because there are so many buttons and you end up spending a while reading what each does, what you should combo, and reassigning everything to where you want it.
It's not about wanting to run low level content, it's about not wanting to be overwhelmed with a lot of buttons to press and no experience in how to best utilise them.
You may think that the majority don't like levelling because you mostly hear that opinion, but the people who do enjoy levelling don't make threads praising it, they just get on and do it.
Just because 5.0 brings new classes doesn't mean they shouldn't start at the bottom. If anything, a class that starts higher than level 1 is offering you a freebie, because there is no good reason you should just get a class handed to you on a silver platter.

So that's my thoughts, I hope you understand a little better why people might want to start at level 1, even if you disagree with some or all of what I've said.

Originally Posted by typhlo

So that's my thoughts, I hope you understand a little better why people might want to start at level 1, even if you disagree with some or all of what I've said.

I don't think anyone disagrees but ultimately that too is up to you and how you approach content. If you want to avoid the clutter and massive amount of icons on your hotbar, you can just drag them all off and then sit calmly with each individual skill in your actions menu and slowly drag them to your hotbar. It's exactly the same process only you don't need to level up twice in between moving to the next skill.
There's really no need to force such a massive change on everyone else because people can't find workarounds the existing system.

And to that I'll counter-point. RDM and SAM were a delight for me because they were the first time ever you got to play a job the way it was meant to be played. Sure, it wasn't their full kit and there were additional systems and shticks added in the later levels, but from the moment you picked up either of those jobs you had a completed product in your hand. You could perform at least that well, you got a much better feel for the job right off the bat, and you could start training without learning all sorts of bad habits you'd later have to unlearn (DRG and spamming that one skill instead of actually using their combos comes to mind). It's also a lot easier to figure out whether or not you like how a job feels like this because you get a feel for their basic playstyle immediately instead of having to invest hours into leveling it up, only to decide you don't like it (HW's bow-mage is a good example, for the duration it was a bow-mage in).

And then there's the fact that they built the lore for those jobs specifically to explain why you suddenly know everything you know. Which was a nice touch.

Would I object to having level-reset items for people who do enjoy the leveling process? No. They could even lock it behind achievement points if they ever get around to developing a system like that. But I think we're much better off the way we are now.

It's not really a massive change, there are 10/15 jobs that start at lebel 1 already.
And sure, I get that you like to play a class with as much of a full kit as possible. But the trouble with it is that while you enjoy having that kit, any time you find yourself synced below the start level, people complain that the class doesn't play well at lower levels, or that it's missing things. My opinion is that this is because when you start out at, let's say 50, you learn to play the job at 50 and above. You don't learn how to play at lower levels because you're used to having all this kit.
Sure, maybe you'll learn bad habits that later on you have to unlearn, but I don't consider that a bad thing because you understand WHY you're not doing that any more.
Some people like having at least most of their kit, I understand that. But there's no reason you can't level from 1-50 to achieve that, and then never run anything lower again on that job. Suppose you wanted to be a warrior, but only from level 50. You only have to get those 50 levels once, then you're in exactly the same position as if you picked up, say, red mage.

To steal a line from you (because turnabout is fair play),
There's really no need to force such a massive change on everyone else because people can't find workarounds the existing system.

Your workaround is the first 50 levels.

Originally Posted by typhlo

It's not really a massive change, there are 10/15 jobs that start at lebel 1 already.

And that's what Job boosts are for. By introducing them, as well as increasing the minimum level for new jobs with each expansion, the devs acknowledged that leveling is not an activity all, or even most, players enjoy.

My opinion is that this is because when you start out at, let's say 50, you learn to play the job at 50 and above. You don't learn how to play at lower levels because you're used to having all this kit.

It's a nice opinion but it's wrong. I have all jobs at 70. I did not use a single job-skip potion on my main. If I get Sastasha as a BLM, my main job which I've played since, what, 3.2? Starting at level 1, I'll still think the job is lacking and incomplete. It's the nature of a design policy that adheres to the 50/60/70 checkmarks where you get nigh-full kits, and even then it depends on the job, because BRDs don't get their last song for 100% uptime until 52.
Your jobs feel incomplete at those other levels because they are incomplete there, and they'd feel that way if you started at level 1 or 60, assuming you actually know how to play your job so that you know what's missing when you're synced down.

There's really no need to force such a massive change on everyone else because people can't find workarounds the existing system.

No, the existing system is the one this thread argues against, where new jobs will be introduced at 50+. I don't need a workaround to it, not really.

Your workaround is the first 50 levels.

I'd sooner say it's the job-skip potion. Only what you're suggesting would cost everyone who dislikes it either a lot of time, or a lot of money, whereas the situation as it exists today only requires you and yours to invest a small amount of effort.

So SE has given the option for people who want to start slow and learn their class through deep dungeon, level dungeons, and low level fate. While people who want to start from a higher level with a good kit of skills get that option. The only other fix they could to make both camps happy is give a toggle to allow the player to pick which level they want to start on.

It is not fair to suggest the blanket change to start at level one and make players PAY for a level boost if they enjoy how new jobs are currently implemented. This would upset a large percent of the player base when they are already use to getting these extra levels for free. Level boost is not the answer.