Is my story lore-friendly?

[Princess_Cassandra]

Edits don't count, so just write whatever you want to write - copy/cut it out of the post - and then just post EDIT INCOMING, edit your post, and paste your wall of text. Annoying circumvention but better than some of the alternatives!

Best of luck with your new journey, and don't feel like you can't come back to (or necro) this thread any time!

Ohhh, haha that is very clever! Thank you sincerely for your help so far but can I ask for assistance in determining if another story piece is acceptable and/or fixing it if it's not? When I made this post I was not sure whether it would be best to post here or on the FFXIV roleplayer forums so I posted it on both, I've gotten much more comments here but the few I did on the other were slightly more on the tough love side of things than reassuring. I would appreciate if you could read the comments there and tell me what you think of my second post which contains the next part in this Ishgard story. I would just copy it here but maybe its important to see the opinions there as well.

https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/topic/...lore-friendly/

[Anonymoose]

I've gotten much more comments here but the few I did on the other were slightly more on the tough love side of things than reassuring.

Ha. Different cultures, I suppose. Lore forum tends to be focused mostly on "Is it truth?" "What is the evidence for that truth?" "Is that evidence in question?" "What can we theorize based on the knowns?" Roleplayers have more opinions. [spooky fingers]

Teadrinker makes a point; roleplayers can be intolerant and stodgy about their idea of the lore. Though imho, that's asinine; most of the misconceptions and entrenched falsehoods about the lore can be sourced back to bad roleplayer assumptions and headcanon creeping its way like an ivy into Tumblr, FFWiki, Reddit, etc. - though a fair amount come from YouTube gurus, too. (Don't look at me like that, Balmung, hard truths cut both ways.) Thems just the breaks when it's necessary to both know and bend the lore for your purposes. Some people forget what was only made up to justify their hooks, if they understood it in the proper context in the first place.

I'd stick to Merenary's point of view. Do what you want to do and RP with the people who gravitate towards it. Don't worry about the rest.

I don't think you even explicitly said this Miqo'te would try to continue on as Ishgardian nobility, or even technically an Ishgardian citizen, did you? She would simply have incidentally grown up in Ishgard and taking a shine to an Ishgardian's worldview before going out on her own adventures? And you want all of this in place before you sew in the "RP Hooks," yes?

[Princess_Cassandra]

Teadrinker makes a point; roleplayers can be intolerant and stodgy about their idea of the lore. Though imho, that's asinine; most of the misconceptions and entrenched falsehoods about the lore can be sourced back to bad roleplayer assumptions and headcanon creeping its way like an ivy into Tumblr, FFWiki, Reddit, etc. - though a fair amount come from YouTube gurus, too. (Don't look at me like that, Balmung, hard truths cut both ways.) I'd stick to Merenary's point of view. Do what you want to do and RP with the people who gravitate towards it. Don't worry about the rest.

Yay, thanks for the advice! I think the three of you make a compelling point about not trying to please everyone and to just RP with people with the right people, I'll try to do just that.

I don't think you even explicitly said this Miqo'te would try to continue on as Ishgardian nobility, or even technically an Ishgardian citizen, did you? She would simply have incidentally grown up in Ishgard and taking a shine to an Ishgardian's worldview before going out on her own adventures? And you want all of this in place before you sew in the "RP Hooks," yes?

Yes, pretty much exactly that. She wouldn't dare try to claim herself a place among nobility and isn't really a citizen, especially after she goes out to live an adventurer's life. I wanted to make sure I had a coherent story as a foundation before I moved on to Rp hooks and the RP itself.

[Princess_Cassandra]

I have a few questions I'd like to ask to get a better understanding, related but not directly related.

After the end of the Dragonsong War and Ishgard becoming part of the alliance, is House Fortemps still known to employ sell-swords and adventurers? Have any other of the main houses changed their stance?

Would the Warrior of Light be allowed to live in Ishgard/Coerthas if they asked, or would they be denied for being an outsider still despite their deeds? What about to a far lesser degree, an adventurer who has proven their worth having slain a dragon? Also is it true that there is some social mobility in the sense that should a peasant slay a dragon, they may become knighted and socially advance?

[LineageRazor]

I have a few questions I'd like to ask to get a better understanding, related but not directly related.

After the end of the Dragonsong War and Ishgard becoming part of the alliance, is House Fortempts still known to employ sell-swords and adventurers? Have any other of the main houses changed their stance?

Would the Warrior of Light be allowed to live in Ishgard/Coerthas if they asked, or would they be denied for being an outsider still despite their deeds? What about to a far lesser degree, an adventurer who has proven their worth having slain a dragon? Also is it true that there is some social mobility in the sense that should a peasant slay a dragon, they may become knighted and socially advance?

While Ishgard has been painted as being on the cusp of change, very little has been stated as far as SPECIFICS of those changes. The only thing I can think of that has been flat-out stated is that Ishgard is now a member of the Eorzean Alliance, and no longer keeping itself neutral in the conflict with Garlemand. To my recollection, nothing has been stated as to whether any House, including Fortemps, has changed their stance on the employment of adventurers and sell-swords.

As for whether the Warrior of Light would be allowed to live within Ishgard/Coerthas, again nothing specific is stated, though it is noteworthy that the guard to the Steps of Faith STILL has the same text blurb indicating that they are allowing you access due to the fact that you're a ward of House Fortemps. Does this imply that you would NOT be granted access, if you were no longer a ward? It's hard to say - but the WoL is pretty much a celebrity in Ishgard, now, and close buddies with the acting leader. I'd guess that if the WoL were to make a request of Ishgard, they would take it very seriously, and if in their power, grant it. Having a home there seems like a pretty small favor to ask. (And if the gate guard WERE to turn the WoL away for some reason, it would likely be a hilarious political faux pass.)

As for social mobility due to dragonslaying, a lot of this is covered in the sidequests at the Convictory in Coerthas Western Highlands - but, unfortunately, it's been too long and I do not remember any details, or whether they'd answer your questions in that regard. Note that the benefits of dragonslaying may be scaled back (ha, "scaled") going forward due to the new peace Ishgard has forged with the majority of dragons. There's still the remnants of Nidhogg's brood to cause trouble, but that's about it. If the peasant or adventurer picked up their dragonslaying cred before the events of Heavensward, though, they could apply.

[Princess_Cassandra]

As for whether the Warrior of Light would be allowed to live within Ishgard/Coerthas, again nothing specific is stated, though it is noteworthy that the guard to the Steps of Faith STILL has the same text blurb indicating that they are allowing you access due to the fact that you're a ward of House Fortemps. Does this imply that you would NOT be granted access, if you were no longer a ward? It's hard to say - but the WoL is pretty much a celebrity in Ishgard, now, and close buddies with the acting leader. I'd guess that if the WoL were to make a request of Ishgard, they would take it very seriously, and if in their power, grant it. Having a home there seems like a pretty small favor to ask. (And if the gate guard WERE to turn the WoL away for some reason, it would likely be a hilarious political faux pass.)

I see. Well from what I have read, I would be very very surprised if WoL was not given a house without second thought.

As for social mobility due to dragonslaying, a lot of this is covered in the sidequests at the Convictory in Coerthas Western Highlands - but, unfortunately, it's been too long and I do not remember any details, or whether they'd answer your questions in that regard. Note that the benefits of dragonslaying may be scaled back (ha, "scaled") going forward due to the new peace Ishgard has forged with the majority of dragons. There's still the remnants of Nidhogg's brood to cause trouble, but that's about it. If the peasant or adventurer picked up their dragonslaying cred before the events of Heavensward, though, they could apply.

Haha that makes a lot of sense, dragons shouldn't be nearly as big of a threat anymore. I will endeavor to seek out and play the sidequest you mentioned.

[Iscah]

A few things that stand out to me:

If Fleurent is a noble, his name should probably be Fleurent de Gisoreux.

It sounds improbable that - in cramped Ishgard and amongst gossiping nobles - he could keep two people a complete secret. Even more so when they're an 'exotic' foreign race that will stand out. Rumours will certainly spread.

I haven't played the dark knight quests, so that description doesn't tell me much - and I'm not really sure what you're meaning by "what Haurchefant does" either. What happened? What did he do? It feels like too much of a handwave - "this really important thing happened but I haven't worked out what it was".

Also, from what I can get out of the lorebook, it sounds like Fleurent would be facing trial by combat for [whatever it was], so you could maybe work that into his redemption. (Also have a look at the MCH Lv50-60 quests, where the guild basically got accused of trying to start a revolution, and had to undergo trial by combat against a dragon...)

And what are these particular ideals and concept of justice that he's passing on to Lana? Because that's a big part of understanding how your character is going to think and act.


(Also a nitpick from your linked post on the other site: the Ishgard expansion is titled "Heavensward", ie. 'towards the heavens', not "Heaven Sword".)

After the end of the Dragonsong War and Ishgard becoming part of the alliance, is House Fortempts still known to employ sell-swords and adventurers? Have any other of the main houses changed their stance?

House Fortemps (no second 't' in the spelling) is most likely still employing foreigners. At least, there's no indication that Artoirel would change it.

There's also the Lv50-60 miner quests where you're working with a group of mercenaries hired by the vaguely-defined "Count Fortemps" - by the way time usually works in the game, we probably should assume that's Edmont even if you're doing the quests post-Heavensward, but nevertheless it's written so it could work regardless of who is count at the time.



House Haillenarte also seems to be open to employing foreigners, even before the end of Heavensward.

Most prominently (though not so useful for indicating the overall stance of the house) Stephanivien hired a Lominsan to work for the machinists' guild as marksmanship instructor.

Some levequest descriptions indicate that there is an Ul'dahn pugilist training knights "as part of a military arts exchange facilitated by House Haillenarte".

And they are also in charge of the Diadem, which is (more-or-less theoretically at this point) specifically recruiting adventurers post-Heavensward.

Emmanellain and Laniaitte also turn up in the start-of-Stormblood Lv60 weaver quest in Ul'dah, apparently specifically to show off the High House costumes, so presumably trying to promote foreign trade.



And the lorebook profile for the Count de Durendaire is prettymuch all about his stance on foreigners - originally sharing Edmont's "desire to open Ishgard's borders and welcome foreign influences", but he became more conservative after the loss of his son. Now with the shifting situation in Ishgard he is supporting Aymeric "in a pragmatic bid to retain influence and preserve the status quo".



House Dzemael is (as always) the mystery card because we really don't hear much about them. Tarresson (the ex-count and a major character in the Moogle crafting questline) seems like he'd be open to it, but then he seems to have little interest in returning to Ishgard. Beyond that, they tend to be the designated antagonists, and the closest we got to an opinion on foreign trade was the Lv60 botanist quest where someone from House Dzemael tried to sabotage the Haillenarte botanist growing foreign crops at Camp Cloudtop... more likely due to petty politics between the houses, but that's all there is to go on. I don't think we've heard anything of them since the end of Heavensward.

[Princess_Cassandra]

If Fleurent is a noble, his name should probably be Fleurent de Gisoreux.

You are right, thanks for the correction. I'll make some edits right away.

It sounds improbable that - in cramped Ishgard and amongst gossiping nobles - he could keep two people a complete secret. Even more so when they're an 'exotic' foreign race that will stand out. Rumours will certainly spread.

I'm thinking his land would be located elsewhere in Coerthas, not in the cramped city itself.

I haven't played the dark knight quests, so that description doesn't tell me much - and I'm not really sure what you're meaning by "what Haurchefant does" either. What happened? What did he do? It feels like too much of a handwave - "this really important thing happened but I haven't worked out what it was".

Sorry if this came across as a hand wave. I want to rewrite everything in much greater length and detail soon. I used Haurchefant as an example because he directly goes against the authority of an inquisitor, even openly drawing his sword on temple knights to stand up for what he believed in (Francel's innocence). I used Dark Knights as reference because they often clash with Temple Knights and for similar reasons too. I want Fluerent to be put into a comparable situation but I just do not know the how or the why yet. It's an important moment that I need to get right.

Also, from what I can get out of the lorebook, it sounds like Fleurent would be facing trial by combat for [whatever it was], so you could maybe work that into his redemption. (Also have a look at the MCH Lv50-60 quests, where the guild basically got accused of trying to start a revolution, and had to undergo trial by combat against a dragon...)

That is very interesting! I will investigate these quest and see what I can take from them.

And what are these particular ideals and concept of justice that he's passing on to Lana? Because that's a big part of understanding how your character is going to think and act.

Indeed, this is a crucial part of my character and like Fluerent's predicament, I want to put more thought into it.

(Also a nitpick from your linked post on the other site: the Ishgard expansion is titled "Heavensward", ie. 'towards the heavens', not "Heaven Sword".)

House Fortemps (no second 't' in the spelling) is most likely still employing foreigners. At least, there's no indication that Artoirel would change it.

Ack, I really shouldn't be misspelling these two, especially not Fortemps. It shall not happen again!

There's also the Lv50-60 miner quests where you're working with a group of mercenaries hired by the vaguely-defined "Count Fortemps" - by the way time usually works in the game, we probably should assume that's Edmont even if you're doing the quests post-Heavensward, but nevertheless it's written so it could work regardless of who is count at the time.

That's a fine example of Ishgardians employing outsiders, awesome.

House Haillenarte also seems to be open to employing foreigners, even before the end of Heavensward.

Most prominently (though not so useful for indicating the overall stance of the house) Stephanivien hired a Lominsan to work for the machinists' guild as marksmanship instructor.

Some levequest descriptions indicate that there is an Ul'dahn pugilist training knights "as part of a military arts exchange facilitated by House Haillenarte".

And they are also in charge of the Diadem, which is (more-or-less theoretically at this point) specifically recruiting adventurers post-Heavensward.

Emmanellain and Laniaitte also turn up in the start-of-Stormblood Lv60 weaver quest in Ul'dah, apparently specifically to show off the High House costumes, so presumably trying to promote foreign trade.

And the lorebook profile for the Count de Durendaire is prettymuch all about his stance on foreigners - originally sharing Edmont's "desire to open Ishgard's borders and welcome foreign influences", but he became more conservative after the loss of his son. Now with the shifting situation in Ishgard he is supporting Aymeric "in a pragmatic bid to retain influence and preserve the status quo".

Thanks for the helpful information, I had no idea there were military arts exchanges like that. I'll definitely investigate this Diadem and I look forward to meeting Aymeric whom i hear good things about.

Overall I greatly appreciate the informative post, cheers. I will try to post greater details in the future!

[Iscah]

Thanks for the helpful information, I had no idea there were military arts exchanges like that. I'll definitely investigate this Diadem and I look forward to meeting Aymeric whom i hear good things about.

Ohhh - I hadn't realised you aren't actually up to Heavensward at all yet.

There's no sign of the military arts exchange going on beyond those levequest descriptions.

And there's not too much to investigate about the Diadem - I don't think there's any story linked to it. I only got in once and there were lots of FATEs but nothing to specifically do, although I was there for the "gathering" missions rather than the "battle" missions. Anyway, once you'll get to Ishgard you'll see there are a few NPCs at the airship landing, though you can't do anything until you've cleared the Heavensward MSQ. The guy in charge is Aurvael de Haillenarte, second son of the count and one of Francel's older brothers. (Quest script for unlocking access: here)

You'll probably need to organise a trip with FC members if you want to get in, as people don't normally queue for it.



Also, once you get to Ishgard, I guess you'll want to pick up the job quests there - but I'd recommend leaving AST for the moment. I don't know if you've been looking through the discussions here for Ishgard lore, but I'd posted about inconsistencies in the quest timeline - and now we have an official response that some critical facts were mistranslated, and should be fixed in patch 4.5. So it's a good idea to wait until then so you get the corrected version of the story. (Not relevant to your story concept, but just for pursuing Ishgardian lore in general.)

Sorry if this came across as a hand wave. I want to rewrite everything in much greater length and detail soon. I used Haurchefant as an example because he directly goes against the authority of an inquisitor, even openly drawing his sword on temple knights to stand up for what he believed in (Francel's innocence). I used Dark Knights as reference because they often clash with Temple Knights and for similar reasons too. I want Fleurent to be put into a comparable situation but I just do not know the how or the why yet. It's an important moment that I need to get right.

If it's just a placeholder, that's okay then - it just didn't sound like you're still working on it. (I'll admit my own character concepts are in a similar state!)