Dear developers, ''Pyros'' does not actually mean ''Fire'' in Greek!

[Naamah]

So, much as I dislike drama and avoid the Forum, this tedious post seems kind of inevitable by now, but I'll try to keep this as short and understandable for everyone as possible.
I am referring to the name of the 3rd Eureka instance, the so called ''Pyros''. I assure you I wouldn't be making such a fuss over it if it were the name of a monster or npc, of anything I could simply avoid and disregard, but it just had to be the name of the place all my friends are in, the name of the instance I myself will have to go to for endless hours of grind, a name included in so many of the objects found in the aforementioned location, to the point that the word is inevitably repeated countless times across linkshells and other forms of chat.
For those elemental-themed instances, SE has chosen to use certain Greek words for various elements as names. Nothing new here, Greek, along with Latin, Japanese, Gaelic, Hindi and several other languages are frequently used and abused in Final Fantasy onomatopoeia, but I will not go into detail regarding the improper use of most of them since I am not a linguistics expert, but would like to focus on the most recent example, which happens to be in Greek, as that happens to be one of my mother languages.
Some of the words SE has used in the past were truly golden, and, in spite of spelling errors, have given anyone speaking Greek tears of laughter, such as the Diplocaulos monster in Palace of he Dead (I mean, who does not chuckle upon encountering a lizard named ''double dic-ehm...how to say this without getting reported...well seriously though, not my fault, you actually named it that!)
Anyhow, the point is, that while Anemos and Pagos are legitimate words for ''Wind'' and ''Ice'' respectively (I'll stick to the Greeklish spelling to make things easier for English speakers), Pyros, contrary to what the developers seem to claim, is simply not an appropriate Greek word for ''Fire''. Pyrros was the name of an ancient King, and an uncommon male name in general, piros is a word for cap, pyrsos is a word for torchlight, while ''pyros'' well...is probably the result of developers using google translate!
The problem here is probably a fundamental lack of understanding of how certain foreign languages work; first of all, unlike English, Greek happens to be one of the languages in which nouns have genders, much like Italian, German, Spanish etc. While Anemos, Pagos, and Logos (Wind, Ice, Speech respectively) happen to be indeed masculine words in Greek, Fire is a feminine (Pyra) or neutral (Pyr) word.

[Naamah]

A dear friend in game pointed out however, that the word Pyros does technically exist, which brings me to the second part of the problem, the matter of declension. Yes, ''pyros'' does exist, but it is not a nominative form of the noun; it is the genitive form of the neutral word ''Pyr'' (nominative form is ''Pyr''). As such, pyros practically means ''of the fire'' and not ''Fire''. The same friend pointed out that in that case Eureka Pyros could make sense meaning ''Eureka of the fire'' which might not seem half bad at first glance buuuuut is truly even more problematic for two reasons:
1. ''Eureka'' literally means ''I found'' (in Greek the personal pronoun is made obvious from the form of the verbs themselves, and does therefore not necessarily need to exist in front of verbs). As such, the aforementioned phrase would translate to ''I found of the fire'', which is, well, the syntactical equivalent of nails on a chalkboard. It is personal pronoun + verb + genitive form of noun, when it should be personal pronoun + verb + accusative form of noun. So, if we use the word ''eureka'' as what it actually is, a verb, Anemos, Pagos, and Pyr, would have to be swapped to their accusative forms, namely, ''Anemon'', ''Pagon'' and ''Pyr'', in order to form the phrase ''I found Wind / Ice / Flame''
2. If we choose to disregard the meaning of the word eureka, and use it as a name for a location (as it is currently used in game), ''Eureka of the fire'' could perhaps make more sense. However, we would then also have to switch the nominative Anemos & Pagos to their genitive forms ''Anemou'' & ''Pagou'', to have ''Eureka of the wind'' and ''Eureka of the Ice'' respectively.
Finally, as things currently are, the game uses the nominative forms for the elementals of Wind and Ice (''Anemos'' & ''Pagos'') and the genitive form for Flame (''Pyros'' instead of ''Pyr'').
Now I do realise that all this does not in any way affect the large majority of players in any way. So I truly do not expect most people in this community to care, except perhaps those who have also had their fair share of seeing their native languages butchered several times over, in franchises they otherwise love. This post is primarily targeted towards developers, and all I hope is that this feedback will eventually reach them; I do not truly expect them to correct the name of the instance, but hopefully they will have the dignity to correct their claims regarding its translation, and perhaps actually simply ask a translator when it comes to using foreign languages in the future!

With kind regards,
a partially Greek girl.

[Shurrikhan]

Agreed, It's awkward to have two be Wind and Ice and the last be Fiery (the Fiery land), but I feel like we've had enough minor translation issues at this point that I've pretty well numb to them.

Heck, a harder issue comes with one of the Anemos mob types. Biloko is specifically a plural form, and thus one cannot kill a Biloko, only... Biloko. Eloko, iirc, is the singular of that mythic creature.

[Solarra]

@ OP - I am sure you are correct but they probably won't change the name now. I think it would be too complicated to change everything in and outside the game.
However, I would like to thank you for going into so much detail in your posts explaining why the word 'Pyros' is wrong. I love linguistics, and even though I do not have a word of Greek, I found your explanations absolutely fascinating.

[number473]

So, I don't think we are really using the Greek conjugation here at all, which is why it sounds weird when we try to analyze it in terms of Greek. In English, pyro- and anemo- are combining forms with the meaning of fire and wind respectively, as you would see in words such as pyromaniac or anemone. Now, to make a noun out of them you would (probably) follow the same rule for each of them in English following a similar pattern, and looking at some similar sounding Greek words that would be commonly known you have things like Chronos or Logos you end up changing anemo- to Anemos, and pyro- to Pyros.

Having the area be named Pyra would not sound right in English. Pyra sounds like a feminine name (it was also used as such in Xenoblade Chronacles 2 for example), i.e. the name of a person, not the name of a place or a thing.

Please take what I have to say with a pinch of salt. I am a native English speaker so I have an idea of what sounds right and what I would do if I was going to make up a name for something like this, but I have no background in linguistics. It's all Greek to me :P

[Jonnycbad]

I'm not Greek but I was under the impression that Pagos, Pyros, and Anemos were Ancient Greek, which reads vastly different from modern Greek.

So, if we use the word ''eureka'' as what it actually is, a verb, Anemos, Pagos, and Pyr, would have to be swapped to their accusative forms, namely, ''Anemon'', ''Pagon'' and ''Pyr'', in order to form the phrase ''I found Wind / Ice / Flame''

You're reading TOO deep into it. Eureka was the name of an optional dungeon in FF3. It was underneath the crystal tower and it contained the sealed ultimate weapons for each job, and the 2 ultimate jobs of Ninja and Sage. It isn't supposed to translate to "I found: Fire/Wind/Ice".

At the end of the day, they draw upon languages but ultimately they stylize it to be fantasy not to be accurate. Most of the Hingan/Doman words are bastardizations of Japanese too. They change it slightly so it resembles Japanese but isn't completely accurate, because this is Hydaelyn and not Earth.

[Jonnycbad]

Also, to the OP, Diplocaulus isn't something they invented in Palace of the Dead for giggles. It's a real animal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplocaulus. The name means double caul, referring to the pair of long protrusions or horns at the rear of the skull, giving the head a boomerang-like shape.

[Haxaan]

I'm not Greek but I was under the impression that Pagos, Pyros, and Anemos were Ancient Greek, which reads vastly different from modern Greek.




You're reading TOO deep into it. Eureka was the name of an optional dungeon in FF3. It was underneath the crystal tower and it contained the sealed ultimate weapons for each job, and the 2 ultimate jobs of Ninja and Sage. It isn't supposed to translate to "I found: Fire/Wind/Ice".

At the end of the day, they draw upon languages but ultimately they stylize it to be fantasy not to be accurate. Most of the Hingan/Doman words are bastardizations of Japanese too. They change it slightly so it resembles Japanese but isn't completely accurate, because this is Hydaelyn and not Earth.

You hit the nail on the head. I also think that instead of being "historically/grammatically" correct, they took creative license (as one is want to do) and went with a -os theme, hence Anem-os, Log-os, Pyr-os. When Saying each of these names aloud, they all have a similar closing sound, which one one would interpret as a set, or belonging together. I do appreciate the OPs attention to detail and for giving us the correct pronunciation, but being irked by the spelling of the word for fire is just as bad as being upset that Shiva and Garuda are represented as Female. It is following a naming convention that mimics greek but does not 100% follow it.

[Shurrikhan]

At the end of the day, they draw upon languages but ultimately they stylize it to be fantasy not to be accurate. Most of the Hingan/Doman words are bastardizations of Japanese too. They change it slightly so it resembles Japanese but isn't completely accurate, because this is Hydaelyn and not Earth.

It's this stuff that gives me a hefty respect for the namecrafting folk over there -- usually enough to counter any peeves elsewhere. (It's really only in the truly crippled use of mock-English or wasei-eigo when playing on the JP client that makes me take a moment... Though I imagine this and other languages' issues would resonate more firmly with their native speakers.)

[Rufalus]

while ''pyros'' well...is probably the result of developers using google translate!

hopefully they will have the dignity to correct their claims regarding its translation, and perhaps actually simply ask a translator when it comes to using foreign languages in the future!

They aren't sloppy amateurs. The name would have been chosen despite them being aware of the information you posted. It's a location name which means it doesn't need to adhere to certain rules so maybe they just thought it sounded good like this.