Feedback to the Game Devs, Dungeons need a revamp

[Duskane]

ive been playing since HW (just when esoteric tome died) i will agree Dungeons are extremely stale now
people complaining about getting one less dungeon a patch is pretty moot when they were basically the exact same slog they always have been

there definitely needs to be a way to spice up dungeon but when ever devs try something different people get upset and we go back to the same cycle we are always in

[Barraind]

Just wait for the trash pulls of bardams. You get hard hitting trash with high hp that you can't really super pull and everyone gets bored of because they don't have mechanics.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Are we done yet?

[Shurrikhan]

Just wait for the trash pulls of bardams. You get hard hitting trash with high hp that you can't really super pull and everyone gets bored of because they don't have mechanics.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Are we done yet?

You can still pull wall-to-wall, so long as everyone's appropriately geared and competent. It's just far from a Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz experience that way.

[RokkuEkkusu]

You can still pull wall-to-wall, so long as everyone's appropriately geared and competent. It's just far from a Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz experience that way.

I find most tanks, healers, and dps nowadays are no where near competent to handle big pulls in Bardam's or later Stormblood leveling dungeons anymore. Reasons vary from gear, not using aoes attacks, not avoiding aoes, lag, not pressing buttons, etc.

[RopeDrink]

I find most tanks, healers, and dps nowadays are no where near competent to handle big pulls in Bardam's or later

That is because Bardem is one of the very few damage-spikes in the dungeon list. That place has always stung, so if the tank is stingy with CD's and not very nimble on their feet for AoEs, then yes, a good Healer might have less fun, but a Healer levelling up and in basic low-end SB gear or Prospectors set is in for a rough ride. It was like that back when I went there for the very first time when expansion was initially released (WHM), and was no different after just levelling an AST from 50 to 70 as of a few days ago -- and I'm the type of person who likes to at least gear up my left-side with appropriate HQ-crafted gear if I didn't acquire enough pieces from the previous dungeon to fill the void. 90% of tanks I encountered during my Bardem+ spam were ping-pong's no matter how good or bad they were... And there were some exceptionally bad ones.

[RopeDrink]

As for the rest of the topic, rather than rant, all I'll say is that the OP contains a lot of "speaking for everyone" in terms of who enjoys dungeons, 'the elitist crowd', why they speed-run etc, yet it all comes from a position where said person seemingly hasn't done dungeons as much as those they are complaining about. I'm sorry, but the whole 'slow and scenic jaunt through a dungeon' trope only applies the first few times. When you get to the point where you've done practically all dungeons, enough to know the majority like the back of your hand, especially when dealing with a playerbase that has mostly overgeared the static-sync and has done it just as much - I'd be curious to see you defending the notion of going pack per pack to enjoy the 'normal pace' when the majority is capable and willing of going faster.

If that doesn't suit you, you can always mention it at the entrance, or continue playing with like-minded friends you meet along the way. It is NOT a fault of a system that players over-gear / over-experience content that is on an infinite loop. If your answer is to 'make mobs hit like elites', then you are advocating for a stricter over-gear bar that people WILL still reach and WILL still speed-run through, except you make the actual content/rewards harder and less appealing for those who actually do need to do that content or aren't at that higher bar due to the ratio between levelling/inexperienced players vs experienced/geared veterans doing roulette's.

[PretzJG]

Let me ask you all this question, WHY are you BORED in a Dungeon? Cause mobs hit "like wet noodles" as one person put it, and they don't have to heal as much. As for everyone pointing out the Main Class I show here.....yeah smart, I have a 52 BLM on one server, a 50 WHM as well, and a few other characters on other servers of varying levels. No I haven't gotten to HW and SB content on them but let me say this again, the issue is that anything seen as below lvl cap savage or extreme is seen as totally boring and not worth doing to many players I run into. It is just another jaunt through the dungeon and they want it over as fast as they can. I can get that, what I don't get is why it has to be so bad that DPS and Healers are going off and pulling, instead of asking the Tank to pull more or doing what they can to burn down the mobs they have pulled faster. What I'm suggesting is make the dungeons CHALLENGING again, make it where if you pull too much or if the DPS or Healers run ahead and pull more groups then it could result in a wipe, causing you to waste time instead of going FASTER. Make it so that Roles actually MEAN SOMETHING instead of just at the boss fights and that the healer is the only one with a healing spell.

Sure as a BLM I can spam Fire 2 and Thunder 2 all day long and burn down a group of 5-10 mobs quickly if the tank can hold the agro. But that is the same boring setup as saying you are bored having to use Fire 1 and Thunder 1 to burst down single targets. I want the dungeon to feel like content you actually need a group for, not something you could solo as a healer as long as your MP never ran out, or duo as a Tank and Healer or DPS and Healer. Give the mobs a feel of danger, and why not add in where they can drop treasure chests that have some good items in them, something to make it feel less like a slog and more of an epic quest.

[Vidu]

Let me ask you all this question, WHY are you BORED in a Dungeon? Cause mobs hit "like wet noodles" as one person put it, and they don't have to heal as much. As for everyone pointing out the Main Class I show here.....yeah smart, I have a 52 BLM on one server, a 50 WHM as well, and a few other characters on other servers of varying levels. No I haven't gotten to HW and SB content on them but let me say this again, the issue is that anything seen as below lvl cap savage or extreme is seen as totally boring and not worth doing to many players I run into. It is just another jaunt through the dungeon and they want it over as fast as they can. I can get that, what I don't get is why it has to be so bad that DPS and Healers are going off and pulling, instead of asking the Tank to pull more or doing what they can to burn down the mobs they have pulled faster. What I'm suggesting is make the dungeons CHALLENGING again, make it where if you pull too much or if the DPS or Healers run ahead and pull more groups then it could result in a wipe, causing you to waste time instead of going FASTER. Make it so that Roles actually MEAN SOMETHING instead of just at the boss fights and that the healer is the only one with a healing spell.

Sure as a BLM I can spam Fire 2 and Thunder 2 all day long and burn down a group of 5-10 mobs quickly if the tank can hold the agro. But that is the same boring setup as saying you are bored having to use Fire 1 and Thunder 1 to burst down single targets. I want the dungeon to feel like content you actually need a group for, not something you could solo as a healer as long as your MP never ran out, or duo as a Tank and Healer or DPS and Healer. Give the mobs a feel of danger, and why not add in where they can drop treasure chests that have some good items in them, something to make it feel less like a slog and more of an epic quest.

Our (current) soultion for the "wet noodle"-mobs is to simply pull more of them - clears the dungeon faster and makes you at least most of your toolkit. As a tank, I enjoy big pulls more than I did with pulling single groups back when I was terribly insecure about my ablities.

And let me assure you: You dont want actually challenging dungeons in DF. I would like to see them aswell, dont get me wrong - but not for my daily roulettes which have a tendency to pair me with undergeared people, who bought jump potions to get to level 60, never learned their class in the following 10 levels and are unable or refusing to communicate with the party.
Dungeons with people like that are challenging enough already and I refuse to run any of them by myself these days.
But besides people being bad: Expert roulette is our mainsource of tomestones and the idea is that even a casual player can progress with their gear by just doing that a couple of times during the week. I dont want stuff that I run 4-5 evenings a week to take long and be super challenging. Specially not in week 8 of the patch cycle anymore.

You complain about healers and dps pulling more than the tank wants - first off: A tank should learn how to do big pulls. If you dont like that... bummer for you, but thats how this game has been played since 2.0. If it doesnt fit what you want from a game - a dangerous enviroment, hard hitting mobs... - you should probably look elsewhere for such a game instead of trying to change established mechanics in a current game to fit your needs. (Reminds me to call Remedy and tell them that I'd prefer Alan Wake to be an RPG, not a shooter...)
Secondly: You're playing the whole burden of communication on the dps/healer - if a tank really doesnt feel comfortable with big pulls, they can say so themself at the start of the dungeon "Hey, first time here - mind if I take it a bit slow? Still getting used to it!" - in my experience that works with most people.

Lastly: What you want is in the game in the form of PotD and HoH, specially on the challenging floors of both dungeons (PotD 100-200; HoH 30-100) - mobs that can one-shot you, invisible traps on the floor, treasure chests that depending on your progress actually mean something, mobs that can drop chests... all in there. Even "permadeath" - you get special safefiles for both and if the whole party dies, the file is broken and you need to start over.
As a result you can only do those challenging floors with a premade-party.
The (story) dungeons in the game are supposed to be for everyone though - despite the fetch-quests they have the highste accessibility and SE doesnt want to lose customers because they got stuck at a dungeon. I remember when I started the game back with 2.0 and dungeons were more difficult (I believe they got slighty nerfed since then, at least in regards to outgoing damage), people played even worse and were severly undergeared. I was playing a tank, I was super nervous... and I had to do Stone Vigil 3 times because the first two times my parties didnt make it. That sort of lead to me becoming a master-crafter because I could do nothing but sit down and craft for hours - I wanted to progress with my story, but I couldnt - not until finally a guy from my FC forced me to do the dungeon again, he joined as summoner and we got through it.
But obviously such roadblocks arent a good thing - I agree, we could do with more difficult dungeons and a better learning curve aswell (to avoid people falling flat on their faces when they see Shinryu for the first time), but at the end of the day the game doesnt work that way and dungeons arent supposed to be the kind of content you want them to be - and for good reasons: accessibility and the fact that they get repeated over and over and over and over again...
They are indeed not an "epic quest" despite being part of the story - they're a potentially daily slug. If you're unlucky with a person who only speaks french or german, bought a jump potion and is wearing a weapon 150 ilvls below the current one.

And I'm bored in a dungeon beause I've done this dungeon like 50 times already - but I still need my tomestones and expert roulette is the fastest and most efficient way.
I'm bored in a dungeon because I've seen this dungeon like 200 times over the past 5 years and am missing curcial skills that make my class fun to play - but leveling roulette is a great source of exp and if I wouldnt be doing this on my warrior this poor freshly started archer would have waited til eternity for a tank to queue up for Copperbell NM.
I'm not bored the first time I enter a dungeon - stuff is new and intresting. But this game needs to send us back to them after our first run - both in order to keep us busy and to ensure that people who reach that dungeon a week, a month, a year from now still get someone to play with.
Dungeons are content we repeat over and over again - and I'm sorry if that leads to us wanting out of them kinda quickly at a certain point. And I'm sorry if that leads to you not enjoying them as much as you'd like - but there is a way around that: Go with friends. Pre-form a party. Go in undergeared, so the mobs will hit harder.
But all of that extra effort is inconvient, isnt it?
If you want the convience of the DF... pay the price for it - which is: The dungeons are done in the moste efficient way possible, because most people cant stand seeing Sastasha NM anymore.

[Kaiten_kenbu]

If a tank wants to pull small just because they think they are a big bad tank and therefore has the absolute and final say and the dps start pulling other mobs into the fray but said tank is too stubborn, lazy or full of themselves to do their job and I am a healer...

I turn my priority to keeping the dps alive and let the tank do their thing and if they die, so be it. And I will stay with the dps even if the tanks just runs away to the next pack. Tanks need to learn their place. Just because you want to be a tank doesn't mean you can treat the rest of the pt like garbage.

Its not about being stubborn or lazy. If you choose to be greedy and go pull more than I would like, why should I want to pick up after you? It wasn't done accidentally, its done intentionally.

I'm running at a chill pace. I get you to the end, that's all that matters.

Cases in point Dzemael Darkhold and Aurum Vale.

More haste, less speed.

[Frizze]

Newsflash: You dont need a tank to clear most dungeons. Tanks arent special. A good tank makes the run easier and cleaner, a bad tank is a complete detriment. If the healer and dps(mostly the healer) say youre doing it wrong, then you are doing it wrong. And read what Micah wrote there - they arent asking you to "pick up after them", theyre telling you they will leave you behind and let you die if you dont keep up. Im normally a DPS. Given the choice of following the slow tank or the fast healer, im with the healer - theyre the one who'll be keeping me alive after all.