Please stop making Eureka

[Magic-Mal]

Or, possibly, most people are happy with Eureka, and don't feel any need to come to the forums to say so? Because they're in the game, playing it.

Most of the threads on the forum are complaints about this, that, or the other. Most people who have a problem, come here to complain about it. So of course you're going to see mostly complaints about Eureka, or glamours, or whatever. It's a huge mistake to think that you're in some majority, like a goldfish who thinks his bowl is the ocean.

Sounds like you need some cold hard data. Don't worry. I have it all for you right here!

January 27th, 2018


May 19th, 2018 - 4 days before 4.3


September 15, 2018 - 3 days before 4.4


November 3rd, 2018 - 3 days before 4.45


As you can see, us NA folk have always been the massive chunk of the playerbase who were the actual backbone of FFXIV, not the JP like many think. Our numbers specifically, dropped by 157,000!!! from January to now. EU dropped by a whopping 70,000. That's almost 50% of their population. While the JP only decrease by 50,000. We have less players than the JP since the JP's decline was at a crawl compared to ours. We are no longer the backbone. EU is only half-alive.

Now this is just my theory, but it's well-known that the JP seem to enjoy Eureka as they complain alot less. So we can connect the dots and believe that because they have been satisfied, even through Eureka, they never unsubbed. Compared them to us the westerners(NA and EU). We go here and complain, complain, and complain some more about Eureka. And our population droooopped.

I'm willing to believe the silent players are doing the exact opposite to what you're saying. They aren't enjoying Eureka. They are QUITTING. By the thousands. Because they aren't satisfied. This is an issue. It should not be ignored. We, the backbone, should not be ignored. EU, the underdogs should not be ignored. But it's too late, we already lost 150,000 of our people. And EU is on life support Thanks alot SE. I guess it's okay though because at least the JP are happy right?

[Araxes]

I spoke with my playtime. I just didnt bother with pagos or pyros.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Or, possibly, most people are happy with Eureka, and don't feel any need to come to the forums to say so? Because they're in the game, playing it.

Most of the threads on the forum are complaints about this, that, or the other. Most people who have a problem, come here to complain about it. So of course you're going to see mostly complaints about Eureka, or glamours, or whatever. It's a huge mistake to think that you're in some majority, like a goldfish who thinks his bowl is the ocean.

This is a fallacy, especially with how connected people are nowadays. While online representation shouldn't necessarily be taken as 100% definitive, if opinions are incredibly lop-sided, they often represent the majority. We have seen this quite infamously with the Mass Effect 3 ending controversy, Star Wars lootbox shenanigans and Battlefield V's... issues. In all three cases, EA or the development teams behind each respective game insisted the widely unanimous negativity reception was just a vocal minority. And in every single instance they lost millions for that belief. The FFXIV sub reddit has almost 200,000 subscribers. Even if we generously assume half no longer play but simply didn't bother to unsubscribe or have accounts both on reddit and here, that is still half the entire NA playerbase represented on reddit alone. And the overwhelming opinion is negative. Granted, Pyros has been more... divided at least.

Regardless, it's quite disingenuous to dismiss the online community as small.

Now this is just my theory, but it's well-known that the JP seem to enjoy Eureka as they complain alot less. So we can connect the dots and believe that because they have been satisfied, even through Eureka, they never unsubbed. Compared them to us the westerners(NA and EU). We go here and complain, complain, and complain some more about Eureka. And our population droooopped.

Actually, JP opinions on Pagos were quite negative. People have posted some comments in the series of threads about Eureka—while also mentioning they apparently had a thread discussing many of the same problems we have. This speaks volumes because JP very rarely complains vocally. In fact, silence from JP players is usually an indication they aren't happy. If I recall though, Yoshida mentioned Asian players as a whole are far less likely to unsub even if they aren't satisfied with the content.

[Alleo]

couldn't agree more , Diadem and Eureka both are very interesting and different type of content with huge potential , sad to see the forums filled with unconstructive negativity towards new type of content , hopefully this doesn't stop the developers from trying new things instead of going back to releasing the same content over and over

If it was only a small part of the community (as in the one that go to the forum) that found Diadem and now Eureka bad content than they would not talk about maybe even taking out Diadem completely, they would not have needed to nerf Pagos so fast and they would not have needed to put so many items behind Pyros.

People can like the content they want, I dont care, but people are also allowed to utterly dislike a content and post about this. And if big amount of people do that, in all languages then there might be something wrong with it. We posted constructive feedback after Diadem 1.0 and got Diadem 2.0 which died even faster. We hoped that they would take all the feedback and make Eureka better and yet it felt like a worse Diadem 3.0..and even with Pyros they have not reacted to one of the most wanted feature, the level synch to play with friends.

Pyros might be better than Pagos but that is not that wonderful since Pagos was the bottom of it. They could have taken the Logos system to Anemos, introduce more ways to grind in there and maybe just maybe it would have been way better content from the start.

I hope that they do create new and innovative content in the next expansion, but Diadem or Eureka are not either of that..

[Reynhart]

This does not keep people subbed over a seven month period.

I guess it keeps enough people subbed since Stormblood have still enough players to keep the same trend from ARR and HW.

I guarantee very few people care about the Pyros armor sets now.

People are interested in new and cool skins. From what I've heard, the flaw or Pyros armor is that that caster/healer looks the same, as tank/DRG...

And calling Pagos not an tedious grind is amusing.

Hold on, please, how did you move from "arduous" to "tedious" ? They don't have the same meaning at all...Because calling farming hundreds of primal tokens or running the same 4 fights over and over for weeks not tedious is really a big stretch (Especially if you lose several lot rolls in the process ) .

Despite being nerfed five times now Pagos remains a slog.

It really depends on you definition of "a slog". Like I said, in three weeks I went from elvl25 to elvl35 and a Pagos weapon, by only playing 3 or 4 Pagos session a week, and after a 2 month break so that Pagos was not fresh new anymore. It's really not that long of a grind.

Tomestones grinds, by their very nature, are an alternative. You earn them through doing almost anything.

The feeling I have with tomestones (And I'm only talking for me) is that it negates the values of any content. Because you're not really doing the content, you're just running through something just to gain your tomes. So, in the end, every Leveling Roulette feels the same, every lvl50/60 Roulette feel the same, and every Expert Roulette feels the same...especially the latter when you're restriced to doing the same two dungeons to cap your tomes each week for three months.

A major complaint has revolved around Pagos enforcing chaining mobs when people preferred the NM train—something they brought back, especially in Pyros.

Problem is, you see lots of people preferring the train because they've been told its faster, which, depending on you elvl, can be a blatant lie. And you still see people in Pagos farming Frozen Crystal with the train and complaining that it takes too much time.

The complaint people have isn't Eureka itself necessarily, but that the relic—a weapon previously obtainable through running casual content—was relocated to a niche activity.

The thing is, you also had people complaining that Relics didn't have their own content and they were basically only here to keep older content alive. As soon as Wondrous Tails was released, my first thought was that the reason was to take that task so that the next relic might solve that complain. Maybe it's why I was pretty much expecting what happened there. And I still think that Anima weapon was only done by a very small part of the playerbase so they shifted a niche reward to a niche activity which purpose was to try new mechanics on the battle system.

[Maleficent]

Sounds like you need some cold hard data. Don't worry. I have it all for you right here!

As you can see, us NA folk have always been the massive chunk of the playerbase who were the actual backbone of FFXIV, not the JP like many think. Our numbers specifically, dropped by 157,000!!! from January to now. EU dropped by a whopping 70,000. That's almost 50% of their population. While the JP only decrease by 50,000. We have less players than the JP since the JP's decline was at a crawl compared to ours. We are no longer the backbone. EU is only half-alive.

Now this is just my theory, but it's well-known that the JP seem to enjoy Eureka as they complain alot less. So we can connect the dots and believe that because they have been satisfied, even through Eureka, they never unsubbed. Compared them to us the westerners(NA and EU). We go here and complain, complain, and complain some more about Eureka. And our population droooopped.

I'm willing to believe the silent players are doing the exact opposite to what you're saying. They aren't enjoying Eureka. They are QUITTING. By the thousands. Because they aren't satisfied. This is an issue. It should not be ignored. We, the backbone, should not be ignored. EU, the underdogs should not be ignored. But it's too late, we already lost 150,000 of our people. And EU is on life support Thanks alot SE. I guess it's okay though because at least the JP are happy right?

I'm not challenging your theory or assumptions but I would suggest looking at the column "紅蓮クリア" to the left of P4.1 which is "Crimson clear" or Stormblood cleared. In the footnote, the definition seems to be accounts with a battle class of 70 "維続バトルクラスのー番高いしべルか70". As only players with level 70 can engage in Eureka, you may wish to consider this.

[Stanelis]

The only thing SE learned from Diadem's iterations was to add highly desired rewards to **** content to get those participation numbers up. They know darn well most people wouldn't do Eureka if there was a feasible alternative to earn those rewards.

Your statement could be applied to most of FFXIV's content (especially PVP). Honestly I feel less and less incentive to log in FFXIV at time pass, as the quality of other games that are released over the year increase, and the quality of FFXIV's content isn't improved over the patch/years. What was fine in 2013, isn't in 2018, especially when ARR was cool but could have been vastly improved.

This is a fallacy, especially with how connected people are nowadays. While online representation shouldn't necessarily be taken as 100% definitive, if opinions are incredibly lop-sided, they often represent the majority. We have seen this quite infamously with the Mass Effect 3 ending controversy, Star Wars lootbox shenanigans and Battlefield V's... issues. In all three cases, EA or the development teams behind each respective game insisted the widely unanimous negativity reception was just a vocal minority. And in every single instance they lost millions for that belief. The FFXIV sub reddit has almost 200,000 subscribers. Even if we generously assume half no longer play but simply didn't bother to unsubscribe or have accounts both on reddit and here, that is still half the entire NA playerbase represented on reddit alone. And the overwhelming opinion is negative. Granted, Pyros has been more... divided at least.

Regardless, it's quite disingenuous to dismiss the online community as small.

Don't bother, some of these people advocating for eureka have been whitekniting for years now.

I'm willing to believe the silent players are doing the exact opposite to what you're saying. They aren't enjoying Eureka. They are QUITTING. By the thousands. Because they aren't satisfied. This is an issue. It should not be ignored. We, the backbone, should not be ignored. EU, the underdogs should not be ignored. But it's too late, we already lost 150,000 of our people. And EU is on life support Thanks alot SE. I guess it's okay though because at least the JP are happy right?

My guess would mostly be that JP players aren't necessarily happier, but as MMORPG aren't as developed over there as it is in other regions (as an example, wow has never been released in Japan) , they have less alternatives.

[Transient_Shadow]

No one is forcing you to play it op. and like Valkyrie said the company assets have already been spent so its a moot point. I agree that it was a waste of resources but there's no point in crying over spilled milk. If its really that big of an issue to you that other people are enjoying something you don't like then just unsub and put your money somewhere else.

[Lastelli]

I agree that it was a waste of resources but there's no point in crying over spilled milk.

What you call crying over spilled milk, I call feedback. Hopefully they will get the message that a good chunk of the player base is sick and tired of fate grinding, that mob grinding is something that died a decade ago and that the surge in heavily rng rewards is starting to be annoying.

[BillyKaplan]

If its really that big of an issue to you that other people are enjoying something you don't like then just unsub and put your money somewhere else.

There's nothing wrong and potentially a lot of good in telling SE why people quit when they do.