Please stop making Eureka

[Reynhart]

This is entirely subjective.

Better is subjective, different is not. The fact that I find it more fun mainly because it's different is indeed only my opinion.

They all revolve around you killing the same mobs endlessly.

In the end, everything could be summed up as killing lots of trash mobs then a boss, be it a dungeon, a quest, FATEs, etc...But soloing or low-manning the challenge log does not give the same vibe or ask for the same requirement as chaining high level monsters on one spot in a full group with dedicated tanks and healers, or roaming around the whole map with the train.

Imagine if a new dungeon is created where instead or running around killing packs of trash and three bosses, you had to keep a position safe from approaching waves of trash and bosses. Or if you had to protect an NPC from waves of mobs and three bosses. Or, as I would really liked The Burn to be, an open zone where you would kill the three bosses and their trash in any order you want, until you open the last part for a final fourth boss. Would it really make you feel the same as the usual "straight line dungeon with three circles rooms" ?

Eureka, on the other hand, gets ever more arduous because less and less people populate the older zones.

For me, it's sill too soon to judge. It's still very easy to end in a full instance for Anemos or for Pagos. I even have taken a full 2 month break just after the release of Pagos and had no issue doing my full Pagos weapon leisurely in a little more than two weeks. From what I've heard, Eureka scales with the number of players, with people reporting that lots of NM are easily soloable when the zone is near empty. Considering that every NM drops XP/Crystal/Light and that you don't need to kill Pazuzu or Louhi anymore, I think it's really doable. Of course, you won't be able to solo if lots of people are in the zone, but, you can simply join them then since chances are they are in a train.

If a large portion of the playerbase assumes the relic is for a general audience, it will be incredibly foolish for the developers to say, "well, no. You're wrong."

Not really. If you have numbers as proof that only a small part of the playerbase actually did the previous relics, it would be useless to streamline the next relic for the whole playerbase, especially when you want to try something a little different. If past relics ended as a niche (No claim since I don't have numbers, but they do), making this one a niche for the new systems you want to experiment is not that far fetched.

Not everyone but for a far larger crowd than Eureka.

Problem is, we don't know the size of the crowd, neither for Zodiac/Anima ownership of for Eureka participation. Officialy, Anemos was a "success", so at least, it matched the size of the playerbase they intended. They didn't comment on Pagos, wether good or bad, and it's still a long way to see if Pyros and the last one will be successful or not.

How do I know this? Diadem. Even with gear competitive to Gordias, Diadem died almost instantly.

There is a big difference between Diadem and Eureka. Random rewards. In Diadem, you never knew what item you'd get and what stats and appearance it would have, especially since you could end with items you might not even use. In Eureka (until now, at least), you always knew exactly what the weapon/armor would be, even if the time it would take to obtain it varies, and you always make progress to that goal. The randomized stats for Pyros may change that a bit, depending on how harsh it is.

And you know Eureka wouldn't survive without the relic otherwise you wouldn't have dodged what I said.

No, I didn't "dodge" the question because I still think it's a silly question. Let's suppose that every item from any content is buyable with tomestones. You have two options : If it's buyable with capped tomestones, people would still do the dedicated content so that they can bypass the weekly restriction. If it's buyable with uncapped tomestones, yes, the content would be dead...but it's true for every content. If EX Primal weapons and mounts were buyable with uncapped tomestones, they would die after everyone get their first clear. If Savage gear, minions and mounts were buyable with tomestones, you'd only see the small fraction of the playerbase interesting in fflogs competition in there, so a fraction of a fraction of the playerbase. If Ivalice gear was buyable with tomestones, people would only get their first clear too. People will mostly chose the path of least resistance (Unless personal gripe like I have with tomestones), and tome farming is the universal easiest way of obtaining things.

Or, one solution would be to make the items really expensive, to the point that the average tome-to-crystal/hour ratio is slower that the average crystal/hour ratio in Eureka. At that point, you'd have people acting the same as me, avoiding an activity because they hate it, even if it's the most efficient way of doing the relic. But I think most people that want the relic would still run Eureka simply to do it faster, thus keeping it alive.

EDIT : Ok, let's do this.

• Protean Crystal : 30 Tomestones of Mendacity
• Anemos Crystal : 100 Tomestones of Mendacity
• Pagos Crystal : 150 Tomestones of Mendacity
• Frozen Crystal : 500 Tomestones of Mendacity
• Pazuzu feather added to Gift of the Archmagus
• Louhi Ice obtainable from a lvl 60 equivalent of Gift of the Archmagus

Total cost of a full set (Anemos Armor + Pagos weapon) for one job : between 210500 (+five weeks) and 227000 Tomestones of Mendacity.
Would you do that relic ?

[Schan]

EDIT : Ok, let's do this.

• Protean Crystal : 30 Tomestones of Mendacity
• Anemos Crystal : 100 Tomestones of Mendacity
• Pagos Crystal : 150 Tomestones of Mendacity
• Frozen Crystal : 500 Tomestones of Mendacity
• Pazuzu feather added to Gift of the Archmagus
• Louhi Ice obtainable from a lvl 60 equivalent of Gift of the Archmagus

Total cost of a full set (Anemos Armor + Pagos weapon) for one job : between 210500 (+five weeks) and 227000 Tomestones of Mendacity.
Would you do that relic ?

I would.

I'm sorry but i'm also going to nitpick on something. "People will always chose the path of least resistance (Unless personal gripe like I have with tomestones)..."
If you say something happens always and then list yourself as an exception then it's not always.

For instance. I really like doing the 24 man raids even thought I don't need anything from it. I run Ridorana even past getting the weekly coin because I find it fun

[Reynhart]

I would.

That's fine then, because, at such a hugh amount of tomestones, I don't think Eureka would really be threatened of desertion since it would still be a lot faster to build your relic within. Keep in mind that it's only for a Pagos weapon, so you could end with double that amount total if you want the final Eureka weapon.

I'm sorry but i'm also going to nitpick on something.

Fixed

[Arg0n]

Eureka, and with this I mean all 3 of them, are the worst FFXIV content ever.
Even Diadem was better lol.

[Nariel]

EDIT : Ok, let's do this.

• Protean Crystal : 30 Tomestones of Mendacity
• Anemos Crystal : 100 Tomestones of Mendacity
• Pagos Crystal : 150 Tomestones of Mendacity
• Frozen Crystal : 500 Tomestones of Mendacity
• Pazuzu feather added to Gift of the Archmagus
• Louhi Ice obtainable from a lvl 60 equivalent of Gift of the Archmagus

Total cost of a full set (Anemos Armor + Pagos weapon) for one job : between 210500 (+five weeks) and 227000 Tomestones of Mendacity.
Would you do that relic ?

Have you ever heard of balance ? Cause yeah pull big number out of your ass doesn't make them "what the devs would do" fact.

from memory it would be divided by ten at least.

[Fatch38]

locked chest are full of trash, everything is locked behing rabbit (yay rng ! haven't gotten a single rabbit in more than 2 hours of farming these fate)

[Tint]

There is a big difference between Diadem and Eureka. Random rewards. In Diadem, you never knew what item you'd get and what stats and appearance it would have, especially since you could end with items you might not even use. In Eureka (until now, at least), you always knew exactly what the weapon/armor would be, even if the time it would take to obtain it varies, and you always make progress to that goal. The randomized stats for Pyros may change that a bit, depending on how harsh it is.

There is also another big factor: Greed only!

There was absolutely no point in even trying to grind for a gearpiece with nice stats, because everyone else in the party would also roll for it, just to sell it for some tokens to the vendor.

EDIT : Ok, let's do this.

• Protean Crystal : 30 Tomestones of Mendacity
• Anemos Crystal : 100 Tomestones of Mendacity
• Pagos Crystal : 150 Tomestones of Mendacity
• Frozen Crystal : 500 Tomestones of Mendacity
• Pazuzu feather added to Gift of the Archmagus
• Louhi Ice obtainable from a lvl 60 equivalent of Gift of the Archmagus

Total cost of a full set (Anemos Armor + Pagos weapon) for one job : between 210500 (+five weeks) and 227000 Tomestones of Mendacity.
Would you do that relic ?

That's 757 hours of nonstop dungeon grinding. Even with 8 hours grinding every day, you will not finish the weapon within 3 months. So no, I would not do this. But in general I prefer tomestone grinding over Eureka, even when that means it takes longer to finish the weapon. But your numbers aren't reasonable.

[Reynhart]

Have you ever heard of balance ? Cause yeah pull big number out of your ass doesn't make them "what the devs would do" fact.
from memory it would be divided by ten at least.

The Umbrite step alone cost 24000 tomestones. One step of one item. You're way below the cost of a 6 step weapon and 5 pieces of armor each with 3 steps.

That's 757 hours of nonstop dungeon grinding. Even with 8 hours grinding every day, you will not finish the weapon within 3 months. So no, I would not do this. But in general I prefer tomestone grinding over Eureka, even when that means it takes longer to finish the weapon. But your numbers aren't reasonable.

Ok, so at half the cost, you would only need 378 hours of dungeons, I guess. So, 1.5 months of 8h/day grinding for the full set up to Pagos at 86k tomestones (57250 for the weapon alone). Fun fact, the whole Zodiac cost 23800 tomestones-of-whatever-was-uncapped-at-the-time, the whole Anima was (at worst) 67000 tomestones-of-whatever-was-uncapped-at-the-time, so almost three times the cost. With the same inflation, a full Eureka weapon (only the weapon) would end at 190k tomestones.

The main difference is that tome cost was, most of the time, the intended way to buy the items for the Zodiac and the Anima, and not an "alternate but slower way". This time, the primary way should still be Eureka, so the tome cost can't be so cheap that it's faster.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

In the end, everything could be summed up as killing lots of trash mobs then a boss, be it a dungeon, a quest, FATEs, etc...But soloing or low-manning the challenge log does not give the same vibe or ask for the same requirement as chaining high level monsters on one spot in a full group with dedicated tanks and healers, or roaming around the whole map with the train.

Imagine if a new dungeon is created where instead or running around killing packs of trash and three bosses, you had to keep a position safe from approaching waves of trash and bosses. Or if you had to protect an NPC from waves of mobs and three bosses. Or, as I would really liked The Burn to be, an open zone where you would kill the three bosses and their trash in any order you want, until you open the last part for a final fourth boss. Would it really make you feel the same as the usual "straight line dungeon with three circles rooms" ?

You begin a consistent trend here, which is making comparisons that are not equal. Releasing what is essential a Siege mode dungeon has a far different experience than anything the game currently offers. In that context, the mobs come to you and you're forced to defend against possible waves or do other objectives. Eureka is not this nor does it remotely compare. No matter how you approach it, you simply kill hundreds of mobs endlessly. It does nothing different. Saying the challenge log gives a different vibe is, again, subjective, and a bit silly. It's literally "kill 30-60 of this elemental type". That isn't variety, it's simply masking the same activity behind something else. If you simply try to spawn a NM, you'll inevitably complete the challenge log without even noticing.

For me, it's sill too soon to judge. It's still very easy to end in a full instance for Anemos or for Pagos. I even have taken a full 2 month break just after the release of Pagos and had no issue doing my full Pagos weapon leisurely in a little more than two weeks. From what I've heard, Eureka scales with the number of players, with people reporting that lots of NM are easily soloable when the zone is near empty. Considering that every NM drops XP/Crystal/Light and that you don't need to kill Pazuzu or Louhi anymore, I think it's really doable. Of course, you won't be able to solo if lots of people are in the zone, but, you can simply join them then since chances are they are in a train.

In Anemos, yes. You can solo some NMs with a low enough instances. This isn't the case in Pagos. Regardless, the grind is so immense, you'll be there for ages. Will this be nerfed come 5.0? Yes. But previous relic steps didn't require a nerf bat for players to catch up. That is the complaint many people have. If you're starting the relic late, it's an increase grind right now and you either deal with it or wait until the expansion's conclusion to maybe have a sensible alternative. There is no way around that being poorly thought out.

Not really. If you have numbers as proof that only a small part of the playerbase actually did the previous relics, it would be useless to streamline the next relic for the whole playerbase, especially when you want to try something a little different. If past relics ended as a niche (No claim since I don't have numbers, but they do), making this one a niche for the new systems you want to experiment is not that far fetched.

Lots of "ifs." This assumes only a small portion of the players did relics. Lets put that aside though. If we assume Eureka and the relic were always intended for a niche audience—a Savage equivalent or thereabouts. What content is there for the general audience; the overwhelming majority? Unless you like virtually every activity this game offers, you'll be finished in under a month. Eureka can't be considered niche content because there just isn't enough for the general playerbase to do otherwise.

There is a big difference between Diadem and Eureka. Random rewards. In Diadem, you never knew what item you'd get and what stats and appearance it would have, especially since you could end with items you might not even use. In Eureka (until now, at least), you always knew exactly what the weapon/armor would be, even if the time it would take to obtain it varies, and you always make progress to that goal. The randomized stats for Pyros may change that a bit, depending on how harsh it is.

You missed my point. Put the relic in Diadem, even with randomization akin to what Pyros has now, and I guarantee it doesn't die within the first week. Put simply, the relic is what keeps Eureka somewhat populated. Any other weapon set and I suspect those population numbers dwindle even if said weapons were guaranteed; no random rewards. I hardly think people will care about say... the i380 Armor sets they threw in there.

No, I didn't "dodge" the question because I still think it's a silly question. Let's suppose that every item from any content is buyable with tomestones. You have two options : If it's buyable with capped tomestones, people would still do the dedicated content so that they can bypass the weekly restriction. If it's buyable with uncapped tomestones, yes, the content would be dead...but it's true for every content. If EX Primal weapons and mounts were buyable with uncapped tomestones, they would die after everyone get their first clear. If Savage gear, minions and mounts were buyable with tomestones, you'd only see the small fraction of the playerbase interesting in fflogs competition in there, so a fraction of a fraction of the playerbase. If Ivalice gear was buyable with tomestones, people would only get their first clear too. People will mostly chose the path of least resistance (Unless personal gripe like I have with tomestones), and tome farming is the universal easiest way of obtaining things.

A silly "question" yet one you built a Strawman around. First and foremost, I said nothing about tomestones and used light grinding as an example. Regardless, every single example you provided has no need for a tomestone solution because there either isn't an arduous grind behind it or it already has a solution to remedy said grind. 10 EX Primal tokens guarantees you a weapon and the mount can be obtained with 99 should you elect not to grind further. The drop rate also increases significantly in subsequent patches. Savage has books to combat its RNG aspect, but also rewards the best gear currently obtainable. The minion/mount are guaranteed drops that simply require a re-clear to obtain. And even if you were unlucky enough to lose in every single pug clear you do, Savage eventually gets unlocked, making it possible to farm everything.

Everything has an alternative here... except Eureka. So this tomestone example falls apart before we even touch the Achilles' heel. Both the Zodaic and Anima relics had an alternative method of progression; multiple, in fact. You keep trying to pile on things like the challenge as some unique deviation when it literally revolves around the same premise—so much so you'll often complete it while spawning NMs because killing trash mobs is the only option in Eureka. Allowing people to tomestone or light farm outside Eureka is simply bringing back the previous options taken away.

As for your tomestone calculations. People have already pointed out they are absurd. Since we already know Pagos requires 500 tokens, 50 Mendacity—a third of what you suggested—necessitates 25,000 tomes, which roughly puts it in line with the Umbrite step. Now you have options! People who abhor tomestone grinds, like yourself, can happily farm NMs while people who prefer it or are indifferent can do dungeons, trials or whatever. This is the crux of almost every complaint: a lack of options. Eureka forces a specific style of gameplay onto people with no deviation. Change that and the complaints will die down.

[HiroesX81]

Ya know its threads like this that never end up being really looked at by the devs. Doesnt really provide feedback, doesnt really provide ways to improve the content. Doesnt provide alternatives. This is all one big bitchfest with people complaining and getting nowhere without actual merit or reasoning.

You could instead ask for ways to improve Eureka, make suggestions for it in the next iteneration but no, you just want to scrap it all together. Basically asking " Please never try anything new " I mean thats basically it when you come down to it. An entire thread just like all the others filled with emotional angst over a piece of content thats getting on your nerves and youi just cant accept that. Without even looking back as to why and how it came about in the first place.

Why should they every try anything new and interesting ever again. Cant say " Please include this next time" "Please include a way for me to do this" No just flat out DELETE. Because "If i dont enjoy it NO ONE should'

This is the whole reason this entire forum has become ONE big JOKE to everyone else. Your upset, you hate it, it sucks thats ALL that matters to all of you.

I hope you enjoy yourselves next time if were back grinding 500 dungeons 1000000 tomes running dungeons from 1 to 70 with RNG drops JUST because you couldnt come up with anything remotely useful or constructive to say. SO Please by all means PLEASE enjoy! and may the never ever try anything remotely unique or intersting again because it is JUST UNACCEPTABLE to you.