Are the numbers too high?

[Rydin]

The vast majority of forum goers that choose to say stats don't work make the assumption that stats are % based, meaning if you go from 500 to 550 attack, you've just increased your DPS output by 10% because your stat increased by 10%. They don't realize that there are ways to manipulate internal formulas such that going from 500 to 550 attack can drastically improve your damage output.

Thats my main point... Stats matter very much... Its just the gear doesn't give the stats you need.... Linear or percentage based... Internal formulas can also be manipulated so that you could get minimal gain from a 500 to 550 increase
Attack is only part of the formula... a formula that is still not completely understood by any of us. In fact it's one of 5 stats that influence damage (And not the most important one at that). A nominal increase in 1 of 5 stats. That's what it boils down to

The issue has to do with the concept of percentage gains versus linear gains. A large percentage of these posts are made with the notion that stat formulas must be percentage gain (they were overwhelmingly this way in XI), but in fact, having tested just about every stat since 1.20 came out, our LS pretty much has found that everything's a linear increase. This means that adding 50 attack is the same if your attack originally was 200 or 500. You still get at the same 'raw gain'. Again, this is quite different from XI's PDIF * base modfier attack formula most people seem used to here.

The problem is players see increases as percentages. If you were dealing 100 damage per hit and now you are dealing 110, your mind tells you that you hit 10% harder...
regardless if the formula is percentage based or linear. The base of it is... people want to increase stats and hit harder... take less damage..
And its not happening because there is no stat to increase enough to see a huge difference in damage dealt (Once you are using the highest damage output weapon)

To tackle the very popular argument that stats must be useless because of "naked" primal runs, I'll start with Moogle. Your DD are going in naked with the sole exception of their weapon. They then make the claim that their gear doesn't matter, not realizing that it's not that gear doesn't matter, but instead that there is simply an imbalance with attack stat modifiers. Stats are incredibly useful - in fact one of them is SO useful that it completely trumps the usefulness of any other attack stat. This stat is Base Damage of the weapon. When you go in naked with an Ifrit bow, the vast majority of your attack is maintained on the weapon. So losing the remaining stats on your gear doesn't make 'naked DD' impractical. If we want to make an imbalance argument, it should be how base damage matters too much, not that stats in general are meaningless. Tell a group to clear moogle with 6 ARCs using weather shortbows, but they can wear any armor they want. They won't win.

I didn't use naked gear runs to prove stats are useless... In fact I proved the opposite... The reason people can do naked gear runs is because you're stats are relatively close when fully geared and nude.
That is exactly the point of this thread.
But I don't know that it is just that... Damage output without question is the most important stat... But pretty much all of your attack power is a base stat also...
I've never said stats dont work... In the OP I said the point is they do work, the problem is most gear gains are too small (Compared to your base DD stats with an ifrit weapon for example) to make any kind of difference
and in terms of perspective... Saying that damage output matters too much and saying the other stats don't matter enough... well thats saying the same thing

Ifrit is a slightly different argument because the popular DD is THM. Magic DD spells have a high base damage inherently built it so it doesn't suffer the same imbalance as melee attack formulas do. Even though you'll get horribly resisted naked, you can probably clear Ifrit rather easily still using naked THMs in weather scepters. The best argument I can make here is that Ifrit is largely about fire damage (for which there is very little gear that affects the damage you take from elements right now) and damage mitigation through dodging TP attacks. It's a fight about evasion, not a 'gear check' fight. You can argue the merits of this from a battle perspective, but I think it's unfair to completely assess the nature of stats in XIV on that 1 fight. I actually don't know how much damage a GLA with a base 54 DEF takes on swipes, but would be interesting to know.

He'd be hit hard... I'm sure... and this is completely speculative.. but I think he'd still take more damage overall from the magic attacks than the swipes
You're right about Ifrit. I said Ifrit is a Magic defense fight. Which is why I pointed out that Fire Resistence is the same fully geared or naked

I'm far from a XIV white knight. I just feel the need to actually know what's going on before I critique something. Again, having seen the testing for just about every stat over the past 2 months, I actually find the stat formulas in this patch quite elegant. Very few were overpowered or "broken" (couple are like base damage in my opinion). The community mods like Bay and Ruk likely don't play XIV to the extent that they know the formulas (nor would 1 expect them to), so I really hope that when they rely posts like this, the devs hold off until the community has a more accurate general understanding of things.

I have never said anything about the formula... in fact... saying that the root of the problem lies in the fact that the stats themselves suffer imbalances (namely the stat boosts from gear and materia) implies that, by and large, the formulae are fine

All this being said, it's a community forum and everyone's got a right to their opinion. So if you still feel the need to argue for sweeping changes, have at it. Cheers.

I don't think the formulae need changing...
No where did I imply this. I have argued just the opposite... For people to stop saying stats don't work.
I read your blog and your parse results are always extremely insightful
I respect you and I don't understand why you keep asserting that I am implying that stats dont matter when I'm obviously saying they matter... they just aren't being increased enough through gear and materia to make the best gear and melds worthwhile

What if base damage on the best weapon was 50 instead of 171, Then it would be easier to influence your damage by influencing the other stats